View Full Version : Squier Affinity P-Bass and tuning...
Day'sSweetDaze
10.05.03, 1:06 AM
Okay, so I'm a guitarist trying to recruit herself a band, right. And there's this friend of mine whom I think might make a good bassist cos he was supposedly pretty good at acoustic bass, which he played in high school. So I'm trying to convince him to join. But he doesn't have the money for anything fancy and isn't sure whether he's really into it or not, so he wants to start with something low end.
I figure for $180 or so an Affinity P-Bass is a pretty good deal. I've heard it's pretty much the best beginner's bass ever. So I'd like to recommend it to my friend.
HOWEVER. I play a wide range of songs in four different tunings (drop D, drop D flat, drop C, and drop B), and I'd rather like to have a bassist whose instrument corresponds to mine. I'm afraid I don't know much technical stuff about basses, so what I need to know is this: Can one tune a Squier Affinity P-Bass down to B F# B E and have it work okay? If not, can it be accomplished with heavier strings? If not, is there some other inexpensive beginner's bass that can handle drop B? If not, do I need to have this guy get himself a five string? Etc., etc., etc.
I'd appreciate whatever help you guys could give me.
xnude_lasersx
10.16.03, 2:58 PM
It's very possible to tune a squier affinity bass to that extreme of low tuning, you would need heavier strings, i think its better to get a 5 stringer instead because the bass would be able to take that low of tuning, you can also just have him transpose the music to fit the notes you are playing for example if he had a 5 string and you play a low b he could just use the b string on the 5 string without having to detune.... so yeah
The Squier P-bass is actually a very reliable instrument (I know an EXPERIENCED bassist who plays one in his band) but I dunno if you wanna take it to B. Also know that the P-bass has a very distinct sound and it's not very popular for certain genres because of its tonal character.
What's your friend's price range? Personally I would want to spend a little extra and get something decent. But then, I was a perfectionist as a bass player and wasn't satisfied with any of the gear I had :)
I would definitely go five string if I were you guys though. The other option would be to get a 35" scale neck, but it's typically higher end basses that offer extended scale necks. Thick strings can do it I guess but I REALLY would not trust it on those P-bass saddles, those things are real fussy (I've owned a Fender P-bass).
Day'sSweetDaze
10.16.03, 4:11 PM
Yeah, as I posted somewhere else on this forum, I went to the music store last week and played a bass for the first time myself, and it was a five string Squier P, which I didn't know existed. I guess most bass makers probably make five string versions of their basses, but I wasn't sure.
You know an odd thing about bass tuning, I always assumed that bass players pretty much always tuned their basses to match the lower four or five strings of the guitar player's instrument, but the other day I found out Ryan Martinie of MuDvAyNe tunes his five string GCGCF, when I assumed he tuned it CGCFA. Which seems crazy to me because you're taking that low B string and dropping it two more steps. Why not tune it up half a step to C instead if you're playing CGCFAD music?
So there's that. THEN when I tried the P Bass out at the store, I, having only played guitar, was surprised to find out just how loose the strings are even in standard tuning.
So NOW I'm thinking that you can tune bass strings a gajillion steps down and they'll still work. Hell, those strings are so loose, and apparently tuning them two steps down (B to G) doesn't hurt their ability to perform.
So do I want by bassist playing a B F# B E four string or an F# B F# B E five string? Which one is more practical? Does he really need a low F# string?
Oh, and his budget is three to four hundred bucks, which shouldn't be a problem given Squier Ps at Sam Ash are only, like, $170, and, hell, like $100 on EBay.
BadHorsie
10.16.03, 4:23 PM
okay here's the deal....that affinity p bass is damn fantastic as a starter and will last for years.
i have one sitting about 10 feet away from me right now and it is a damn fine instrument.
this has been loaded with super-slinky, power-slinky, and regular-slinky ernie ball strings...and all were great in a wide range of tunings....as i make my bro tune to whatever im in so we can pump out the jams.
oh i play guitar...its my brothers bass.
so yah...great bass, great price.
hope you like it.
edit: oh just caught that bit about the five string....it all depends on how low you want the bas to be...i mean 5 string basses are low enough on their own for most music...so...idunno.
makes sense to go to a five string if your gonna be playing music in C. cuz would you rather have strings floppin about or would you rather hear that punchy bass tone come through with a menacing low end roarin away.
Originally posted by Day'sSweetDaze
Yeah, as I posted somewhere else on this forum, I went to the music store last week and played a bass for the first time myself, and it was a five string Squier P, which I didn't know existed. I guess most bass makers probably make five string versions of their basses, but I wasn't sure.
You know an odd thing about bass tuning, I always assumed that bass players pretty much always tuned their basses to match the lower four or five strings of the guitar player's instrument, but the other day I found out Ryan Martinie of MuDvAyNe tunes his five string GCGCF, when I assumed he tuned it CGCFA. Which seems crazy to me because you're taking that low B string and dropping it two more steps. Why not tune it up half a step to C instead if you're playing CGCFAD music?
So there's that. THEN when I tried the P Bass out at the store, I, having only played guitar, was surprised to find out just how loose the strings are even in standard tuning.
So NOW I'm thinking that you can tune bass strings a gajillion steps down and they'll still work. Hell, those strings are so loose, and apparently tuning them two steps down (B to G) doesn't hurt their ability to perform.
So do I want by bassist playing a B F# B E four string or an F# B F# B E five string? Which one is more practical? Does he really need a low F# string?
Oh, and his budget is three to four hundred bucks, which shouldn't be a problem given Squier Ps at Sam Ash are only, like, $170, and, hell, like $100 on EBay.
First of all.. Last I heard Ryknow was playing 4 string basses mostly, for the songs on The End of All Things to Come.. tuned C something or other.
Secondly, forget the notion that you can tune a bass to anything, that is absolutely WRONG!!! For the band I played bass in before I switched to guitar, I played a five string tuned G#C#G#C#F#, and even in that tuning the strings were extremely floppy. The lower you tune, not only will the strings get loose to the point of unusability but the notes will lose definition. Anywhere below G# and you're going to notice that notes aren't being amplified evenly. Try it with a guitar, you'll get the same effect. NOBODY needs to drop to F# unless your name is Stephen Carpenter.. :)
The most simple solution here would be to match with the guitar.. if you're playing in B then all he really needs is a five string in standard tuning, or a four string matching your tuning.
Rosstrum
10.16.03, 5:10 PM
well heres a thought... just get a 5 string bass tuned into normal 5 string bass standards.... beadg... that would be just fine for you guys... i really dont see the point of extreme downtuning anyways
Day'sSweetDaze
10.16.03, 5:45 PM
Having a bass whose tuning matches that of my guitar is far more practical. Since so much of bass work is emphasis of whatever the guitar's doing, it'd be easier to reconcile the two parts. When I'm playing a DAD power chord at the third fret, he'll be playing a low D on the third fret of one of his B strings. Ya know? Plus if everybody's instrument is tuned in the same way, it's easier for my to tab out music for both myself, him, and another guitarist if we get one.
BadHorsie
10.16.03, 6:13 PM
yup...good stuff
thats how i would do it...tab is easier that way....but then again the bass riffs are always jumpin around the scale anyway with my bro so.............................dunno
Day'sSweetDaze
10.16.03, 8:33 PM
Wayjurn, two things (sorry, I didn't see your post until just now, I scrolled right to Rosstrum's and didn't notice it).
The very fact that you're calling him Ryknow indicates that you're a little behind on the times, my friend. Kud, Gurrg, Ryknow, and SpAg were MuDvAyNe's LD50 names, and for LD50 they played in drop B. Now for The End of All Things to Come, they've dropped the crazy makeup and costumes, they play in drop C, and they've changed their stage names to Chüd, Güüg, Rü-D, and Spüg. Personally, I thought their stage names were kinda dumb in the first place, and now they've changed them to even dumber ones, so I said **** it and started calling them by their actual names, Chad, Greg, Ryan, and Matt.
As for Ryan's bass, I read an article in Guitar World where Ryan specifically says, "I play a five string Warwick Thumb tuned GCGCF." I don't know how he manages it, maybe with uber thick strings.
In any case, for my band I guess a B F# B E G# five string is probably the best idea after all. Indeed, it requires very little tuning change from what a five string is normally, and, ****, the strings'll even be a little bit TIGHTER than they're supposed to be. Not bad at all. :-)
Originally posted by Day'sSweetDaze
The very fact that you're calling him Ryknow indicates that you're a little behind on the times, my friend. Kud, Gurrg, Ryknow, and SpAg were MuDvAyNe's LD50 names, and for LD50 they played in drop B. Now for The End of All Things to Come, they've dropped the crazy makeup and costumes, they play in drop C, and they've changed their stage names to Chüd, Güüg, Rü-D, and Spüg. Personally, I thought their stage names were kinda dumb in the first place, and now they've changed them to even dumber ones, so I said **** it and started calling them by their actual names, Chad, Greg, Ryan, and Matt.[B]
Jesus Christ. I've been a fan of them since LD 50 so it's a hard habit to break when they're switching personalities all the time :P Give me a break.
[B]As for Ryan's bass, I read an article in Guitar World where Ryan specifically says, "I play a five string Warwick Thumb tuned GCGCF." I don't know how he manages it, maybe with uber thick strings.
How recent was that article? Cause he plays a 4-string in the Not Falling video and he played 4-strings exclusively (well, maybe a five string once or twice, this was a year ago) when I saw them on tour supporting The End of All Things to Come.
In any case, for my band I guess a B F# B E G# five string is probably the best idea after all. Indeed, it requires very little tuning change from what a five string is normally, and, ****, the strings'll even be a little bit TIGHTER than they're supposed to be. Not bad at all. :-)
That's cool, if you like your strings breaking ;) just kidding.
i still dont understand why drop B tuning is like that. it makes more sense to have it as B E A D F# B.
and i still dont understand tuning down more than 1 step. especially on guitar. its ridiculous.
but i digress.
i dont really know anyhting about Squier.
Day'sSweetDaze
10.16.03, 10:34 PM
Drop B tuning is drop D with everything lowered one and a half steps. It provides a dark sound, lets you play most baritone and seven string music, and makes it easy to play in D major, which is probably my favourite key. But I think I listed all these advantages before somewhere. It's a good tuning, trust me. :-)
As for you, Wayjurn, here's the article:
http://www.guitarworld.com/gearreviews/axology/0203.mudvayne.html
Regardless of the videos, Ryan's used a five string in EVERY live recording I've ever seen, though for this one live recording of "Dig" he picks up one at the beginning of the song and puts down the other (I think he actually put the five string away and used a four). I don't know. But I know he PRIMARILY uses that five string. Most of my live videos are from the LD50 period, but a couple are TEoATtC, and it's still the five string.
And, like I said, the changing personalities thing, watch them do it again next album. That's why I'm just going to use their real names. ****, if you're going to employ a stagename, do the decent thing like Marilyn Manson and his crew and KEEP IT for your WHOLE CAREER. LOL.
Lastly, I sincerely hope tuning bass strings up half a step isn't that big a deal... :-/
Wayjurn
10.16.03, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Day'sSweetDaze
As for you, Wayjurn, here's the article:
http://www.guitarworld.com/gearreviews/axology/0203.mudvayne.html
Regardless of the videos, Ryan's used a five string in EVERY live recording I've ever seen, though for this one live recording of "Dig" he picks up one at the beginning of the song and puts down the other (I think he actually put the five string away and used a four). I don't know. But I know he PRIMARILY uses that five string. Most of my live videos are from the LD50 period, but a couple are TEoATtC, and it's still the five string.
Thanks for linking to the article. Well, Ryan obviously uses both four and five strings, so I wouldn't be surprised if he switched between them especially in the studio. When I saw them live though, he just stuck to four string basses the entire time.
Day'sSweetDaze
10.16.03, 11:21 PM
But surely he had at least two different basses, yes? I would think he'd have a drop B bass for the old music and a drop C bass for the new. Think carefully, did he ever switch instruments when going from an old song to a new one or vice versa? And if so were both instruments four strings, or might one of them have been a five?
Wayjurn
10.16.03, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Day'sSweetDaze
But surely he had at least two different basses, yes? I would think he'd have a drop B bass for the old music and a drop C bass for the new. Think carefully, did he ever switch instruments when going from an old song to a new one or vice versa? And if so were both instruments four strings, or might one of them have been a five?
Well, yeah, that's kind of a given :p OF COURSE he had more than one, he had at least four, varying colors, but I don't think any of them were five stringed.
Day'sSweetDaze
10.17.03, 12:01 AM
I WISH I COULD AFFORD FOUR+ ****ING WARWICKS!!!!! AAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!
;-)
i still dont see why people need to tune down more than half a step. its the bassist's job to play the low end, now the guitarist's.
its all KoRn's fault.
Originally posted by Lexicon
i still dont see why people need to tune down more than half a step. its the bassist's job to play the low end, now the guitarist's.
its all KoRn's fault.
The actual character of the sound your guitar produces is fundamentally different between standard and 7-string/baritone. I mean, play a note on the E string of a guitar in standard tuning and then play a note on a seven string's B. The main difference to me isn't necessarily that it's lower (I can get _real_ bass sounds out of my guitar if I really want to, but I don't.. like you said, that's the bassist's job and as a former bassist myself I respect their territory.), just that the dynamics are better suited to my style of music.
xnude_lasersx
10.17.03, 11:12 PM
i just think its silly when bassist tune down to like below D and not use a 5 string bass its silly....
Wayjurn
10.17.03, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by xnude_lasersx
i just think its silly when bassist tune down to like below D and not use a 5 string bass its silly....
So maybe they need to match tunings with their guitarist, and don't use the G string (shut up). Or, maybe they prefer the smaller neck. Same reason guitar players are so anal toward seven strings, they can't get used to the neck.
What is so wrong about tuning down? Just because of nu metal..
Iced Guardian
10.18.03, 1:15 AM
Just some trivia for my homie Day's Sweet Daze here. :)
When MuDvAyNe made L.D. 50, you were correct in stating that Greg tuned his guitar(s) to "Drop-B" (low to high: B F# B E G# C#). However, for that album Ryan played a 5 string bass in standard tuning, low to high: B E A D G. On their latest album, Greg played in "Drop-C": C G C F A D, while Ryan played 4 string tuned: C G C F and 5 string tuned: G C G C F.
Personally, I agree with Wayjurn about notes losing definition and clarity below G#. Hell, I plan on buying a seven-string in the future and the lowest I'll be tuning that would be to A(although I'll probably keep in in standard for writing original material).
To help with your question Day's, it seems like you enjoy playing in "Drop-B" so unless that changes,I think it would be a bad idea to buy a 4 string Squier and tune it down that low. A 5 string is a much better idea, and you could keep it in standard tuning. That way the bassist can follow you on the low B string and if your metalized riffage causes you to venture on to other strings, the bassist only has to compensate by 2 frets. It also allows for some interesting basslines that don't completely follow your guitar.
Hey, it worked on L.D. 50, didn't it? ;)
Day'sSweetDaze
10.18.03, 11:23 AM
Yeah, a five string is looking good. I'd definitely get the guy to tune it like the low five strings of a drop B guitar, though. I'm pretty sure bass strings can handle being tuned a step up.
And, yeah, I definitely love drop B. Like Wayjurn said, a low tuned stardard six string has a very different sound than a baritone or seven string, and I like that sound. It seems deeper, darker, lower somehow. I don't know how to explain it, really. It's like...it's like a baritone is SUPPOSED to be that low, so it doesn't really SOUND that low. But my low tuned Les Paul SOUNDS like it's really ****ing low. Eh, Wayjurn knows what I mean, I'm sure. It's hard to describe...
Aside from liking the sound of drop B, it's a necessity to tune that low, anyway, cos I play a lot of bands whose material is in drop B or C# standard (which is like drop B without the drop part) or played with seven strings or baritones. Not sure if I've listed them on this thread or not, so here:
MuDvAyNe 1.0
A Perfect Circle
Theory of a Deadman
Evanescence
Flaw
Chevelle (at least for "Send the Pain Below", only song I know by them)
And, no, not KoRn. I don't really like KoRn for some reason. They're not a bad band, they just don't do much for me. I'm pretty sure low music isn't their fault, though, since of the bands I listed above the only one with a seven string is Flaw.
Also, the guitarist isn't invading the bassist's territory by tuning to drop B, that's a silly thing to say. The highest string on a drop B bass is still way lower than the lowest string on a drop B guitar. :-P
And, no, not KoRn. I don't really like KoRn for some reason. They're not a bad band, they just don't do much for me. I'm pretty sure low music isn't their fault, though, since of the bands I listed above the only one with a seven string is Flaw.
Korn was the first band to really tune down. even though they were just ripping off Fear Factory and adding some hip-hop influence, they still influenced just about every metal band since 1994.
i just think tuning down isnt needed to sound heavy. look at Slayer. they only drop 1/2 step, yet they're still heavier than most bands. Ministry played in standard tuning, and still sounded heavy as hell..
Also, the guitarist isn't invading the bassist's territory by tuning to drop B, that's a silly thing to say. The highest string on a drop B bass is still way lower than the lowest string on a drop B guitar. :-P
You missed the point. the bass is there for a reason. look at Meshuggah, they use 8 strings. thats ridiculous. they tune so low, they kicked out their bassist. Why no just run bass with distortion instead of tuning down to basically bass tuning. with Drop A, you're basically playing bass.
Originally posted by Lexicon
You missed the point. the bass is there for a reason. look at Meshuggah, they use 8 strings. thats ridiculous. they tune so low, they kicked out their bassist. Why no just run bass with distortion instead of tuning down to basically bass tuning. with Drop A, you're basically playing bass.
That's such an ignorant thing to say. There's still a big tonal difference between bass and guitar, they're two entirely different beasts and it has nothing to do with what they're tuned to. Assuming they're tuned to the exact same note, the bass still sounds fundamentally different, plays fundamentally different. Have you ever REALLY tried playing distorted power chords on a bass? It's a cool sound but it'll never ever replace the guitar in a band unless you're going for the Kyuss sound. Two different worlds there.
BTW, Day, that's not exactly what I meant.. I mean, difference between an instrument tuned in standard and an instrument drop tuned or a baritone or a seven string. Sure there may be a difference between drop tuned and baritone, but I prefer baritone because it feels tighter and it's less likely to go out of tune.
Day'sSweetDaze
10.19.03, 5:16 PM
I actually would like to try turning my guitar into a bass sometime. Get, like, a whammy or an octave pedal, drop everything three octaves, and put it through a bass amp. I know it wouldn't sound equivalent to a bass tonally, but it'd still be cool to try. :-)
Originally posted by Day'sSweetDaze
I actually would like to try turning my guitar into a bass sometime. Get, like, a whammy or an octave pedal, drop everything three octaves, and put it through a bass amp. I know it wouldn't sound equivalent to a bass tonally, but it'd still be cool to try. :-)
2 octaves is more than enough.
Trust me, the novelty wears off quickly, I tried it with my PS-5.
Day'sSweetDaze
10.19.03, 6:24 PM
Originally posted by Wayjurn
2 octaves is more than enough.]
If you're gonna go, go all out. :-D
Trust me, the novelty wears off quickly, I tried it with my PS-5.
That's why I said I wanted to "TRY it", not "sell all my possessions, take a vow of chastity, and found a self effacing religion that teaches that only through dropping a guitar many octaves with an effect and playing it like a bass can purity be attained in the human soul". SILLY. :-P
Originally posted by Day'sSweetDaze
If you're gonna go, go all out. :-D
All out to the point where you can't hear it at all..
seriously, at -2 octaves, only the higher strings were making noises, on the 5th string it was just this muddy infrasound that was shaking my headphones to pieces but I still couldn't hear it :)
Day'sSweetDaze
10.19.03, 6:54 PM
Snap, yo, that's ****ED UP.
Originally posted by Wayjurn
All out to the point where you can't hear it at all..
seriously, at -2 octaves, only the higher strings were making noises, on the 5th string it was just this muddy infrasound that was shaking my headphones to pieces but I still couldn't hear it :)
Your guitar is tuned from A right? At -2 octaves you're playing a full tone/step below the lowest note you can play on a standard tuned 5 string bass. Although I guess you wouldn't have to worry about invading the bassist terrority if you went down -3 octaves, you'd be playing an octave and a half lower than him:D
Wayjurn
10.20.03, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by Crash
Your guitar is tuned from A right? At -2 octaves you're playing a full tone/step below the lowest note you can play on a standard tuned 5 string bass. Although I guess you wouldn't have to worry about invading the bassist terrority if you went down -3 octaves, you'd be playing an octave and a half lower than him:D
Yeah seriously.. At that point you're playing below the range the speakers can reproduce sound at.. :eek:
And yes, A, you're right. :)
for the record i do not support your statement of "Since so much of bass work is emphasis of whatever the guitar's doing,"
my ex bassist played a five string. with the low b removed. and an added high-c. talk about some extremly sweet chording and melodies.
that said, squier basses are decent... but i was in a sonic youth craze when i had a squire bass... and it did not support constant retuning...
Day'sSweetDaze
10.20.03, 9:50 AM
I was referring specifically to MY bass work, not to bass work in general. Most of the music my band will play is nu metal, and the vast majority of nu metal bassing IS emphasis for the guitar.
^^^ which is becuase somewhere along the line, look was taken over talent.
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