A bit of songwriting help please.

[jamie.pope]

Right, so, i have come up with a real nice chord progression and all i need now is lyrics to go with it.

I have a few questions:

1.How can i get into the right frame of mind, so to speak, to get lyrics out of myself. I know they're there, they're just hiding.

2.Getting lyrics to fit with odd progression measures.

Generally just any help you huys have regarding writing a nice song.

Cheers guys:)

[guidedbyechos]

the way I do it I just start singing crap over it and keep what you like.

[free_fall]

what is the over all feel of the progression? Is it someting upbeat, melancholy, vitriolic, introspective?

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by free_fall
what is the over all feel of the progression? Is it someting upbeat, melancholy, vitriolic, introspective?

hmmmm....

....it's a nice strum along consisting of 4 chords.

....one song with rhythm similiar to it, is that latest Nickleback track, during the verses.

[free_fall]

one song with rhythm similiar to it, is that latest Nickleback track, during the verses.

hmmmmmmm...don't think I've heard it. I would crack a beer, go sit somewhere that the view was nice, grab a book of poetry (for inspiration) and think of some chick that you wanna get to know. If it's that kind of song.

[jamie.pope]

Got the 1st verse done:

"Unrecorded and unrenowned
Men from whom my ways began
Here i know you by your ground
But i'm on the outside from within
All is mist and there survives
Not a moment that could ruine our lives"

....so....how am i doing?

[elmoismyhero]

it sounds like it should be sung to an upbeat heavily distorted bass real fast... I dont know why i thought of it. I just sang it to myself real fast...

distorted bass having the same tone as "united states of whatever" by... um.. i forgot.
but not the same riff.

[free_fall]

....so....how am i doing?

Quite well, actually. Better than most lyrics I hear these days. So did you follow any part of my advice? Is any of it working for you?

Try this:

Here I know you by your sound,
approaching closer, peering in

...just a thought

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by free_fall
Quite well, actually. Better than most lyrics I hear these days. So did you follow any part of my advice? Is any of it working for you?

Try this:

Here I know you by your sound,
approaching closer, peering in

...just a thought

Well, i did follow your advice.

I didn't crack open a beer as such, mainly because i'm under age;)

I couldn't go get a nice view, because it's 2:49 in the morning here. ;)

Yet, i dug out 3 poetry books of my dads....they're really really old....the last outing date was 1967!

I read through them, they gave me some ideas and it started flooding out.

....gotta keep going though
;)

[nickname]

Old poetry books are awesome, I love them. No need to drink for inspiration, just...look around, let your mind wander.

[free_fall]

No need to drink for inspiration

True, but sometimes it does help to grease the old synapses and Jamie said he was having a time of it, so...but yeah, it's totally unnecassary

[cubby]

Originally posted by jamie.pope
1.How can i get into the right frame of mind, so to speak, to get lyrics out of myself. I know they're there, they're just hiding.


Take a shower - for some stupid reason that's when I always come up with my best ideas.

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by cubby
Take a shower

What you trying to say? ;) :D

[joeinthebox1980]

Originally posted by jamie.pope
1.How can i get into the right frame of mind, so to speak, to get lyrics out of myself. I know they're there, they're just hiding.

find areas that inspire you. take a walk, visit a quiet bookstore, coffeshop, be alone, be surrounded. etc.

take a notebook with your or something... and write down things... no matter how stupid or how personal. because there will always be a few lines that you can use.

EDIT: just saw the bit about your dad's poetry... good call!




2.Getting lyrics to fit with odd progression measures.


that's a tough one... i say keep singing the words over the chords in various ways until you find something that fits.

OR... you can think of a 'theme' or whatever that you want to tackle and then kinda improvise some 'lyrics' over the chords in a way that you think the singing should go. make sense?

and then... you might find yourself a good singing-rhythm for the song.


good luck! :)

[joeinthebox1980]

oh! and jamie... remember to not be afraid to experiment with different styles.

and it's easy to be introspective and what not... but don't be afraid to tackle some social commentary whether it's mundane or not.

[doingtheunstuck]

when i need lyrics to fit a song structure with strange timing or whatever.... i write the music first.

then, i improv my voice over it, just nonsensical phrases. stereotypical scat ones, mostly.

i find a rhythm and figure out how many syllables i fit with that rhythm and such and then i base the lyrics into that structure that i've garnered from the nonsensical bits.

hope that makes sense.

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by joeinthebox1980
find areas that inspire you. take a walk, visit a quiet bookstore, coffeshop, be alone, be surrounded. etc.

take a notebook with your or something... and write down things... no matter how stupid or how personal. because there will always be a few lines that you can use.

EDIT: just saw the bit about your dad's poetry... good call!





that's a tough one... i say keep singing the words over the chords in various ways until you find something that fits.

OR... you can think of a 'theme' or whatever that you want to tackle and then kinda improvise some 'lyrics' over the chords in a way that you think the singing should go. make sense?

and then... you might find yourself a good singing-rhythm for the song.


good luck! :)

Lovely mate, brilliant stuff, indeed very helpful.

I usually pick up random things when walking around London, because us Londoners can be very intellectual in a very stupid way...;)

Also, i have found myself picking out phrases and lines from movies that i like.

For instance, i was watching Vanilla Sky again the other night, and realised that there were some amazing lines in there about life that made perfect sense and what importance they have to me. I am gonna have to watch it again to take some note.

Hope you like the 1st verse:)

[commuter]

i do the improv without actual words thing too - just get a rhythm down and whatnot first.

sometimes if i'm stuck i'll steal a line form a book or something and start to write around that, eventually replacing it with something original. it can be a good way to give yourself a kickstart.

[apocalypsecow]

If it's something you do, get stoned and write...Chances are most of what you'll write is gonna be garbage....and I can't say that I've ever got any GOOD lyrics/prose out of writing while I was stoned...but I've gotten some WEIRD stuff out of it...

[Epiphone8]

jamie dude!! you sohuld have just asked me on MSN!

when i write for my band usually i come up with the basic melody/chords/riff and lyrics (depends on which comes first)

but if you fitting lyrics in you can try and fit them along with the melody line eg the when jonny joins in first at street spirit his guitar follows the line laid down by thoms voice (so you do it the other way round)

you could fit them in chili peppers style (fast talakative)

or just a singalong type thing eg just by radiohead

to come up with lyrics: sometimes they just come out of thin air when your walking about, or off a film or something etc etc


the lyrics you wrote im quite fond of, but they are more like a classic metallica song, very black album. jusdging by your influences id say study study study the lyrics of thom yorke who is a master at hidden meanings and ****.

but good luck dude, and never be afraid to share what you come up with. if one person lieks it who gives what everyone else thinks. just be confident and get past the bit wher you think its ****.

[doingtheunstuck]

it's not a way that most people would enjoy writing, probably.. but something else i do is i randomly open a dictionary up and point at words. i get about 15 of them and use around 13, normally.... finding ways to link them with other words.

[thefuryiswithin]

if you can, get yourself pissed of your rocker on some bourbon, sit down, either think about everything in your life or the world that is good or bad, then just start writing down phrases. its amazing what you come up with, as your feelings are easier to find. you'll have more emotion in your songs.

also, i carry a note book around with me sometimes, and whenever something pops into my head i write it down. you can always build lyrics around that.

however, dont push it. the greatest ideas are spontaneous or done over a great period of time.

hope this helps :)

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by thefuryiswithin
if you can, get yourself pissed of your rocker on some bourbon, sit down, either think about everything in your life or the world that is good or bad, then just start writing down phrases. its amazing what you come up with, as your feelings are easier to find. you'll have more emotion in your songs.

also, i carry a note book around with me sometimes, and whenever something pops into my head i write it down. you can always build lyrics around that.

however, dont push it. the greatest ideas are spontaneous or done over a great period of time.

hope this helps :)

Thanks, yes, everybody is giving a helping hand here, it is very well appreciated :)

Though, from what several have said....i better get myself some alcohol...and quick!!!:D

[King Buzzo]

I find it helpful to write songs using a dictionary and thesaurus.

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by King Buzzo
I find it helpful to write songs using a dictionary and thesaurus.

Yeah, i wrote a whole song once from picking out certain words at random and then elaborating a whole song from them....:)

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by jamie.pope
Yeah, i wrote a whole song once from picking out certain words at random and then elaborating a whole song from them....:)

i do something similar a lot...but once i alternated between using a thesaurus and a dictionary for the lines. one line would be from the dictionary and be a statement... then the next line would be a description, using the thesaurus for groups of words.

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
i do something similar a lot...but once i alternated between using a thesaurus and a dictionary for the lines. one line would be from the dictionary and be a statement... then the next line would be a description, using the thesaurus for groups of words.

Nice one man!

Given me a great idea!:)

*thumbs up!*

[joeinthebox1980]

Originally posted by jamie.pope
Lovely mate, brilliant stuff, indeed very helpful.

thanks!


I usually pick up random things when walking around London, because us Londoners can be very intellectual in a very stupid way...;)

*sigh* i can't wait until i do that... i've always considered the UK to be a creative home to me... and i have yet to visit there and truly soak in all that.


Also, i have found myself picking out phrases and lines from movies that i like.

yes! i do that too... or with poems and what not as well. i take lines and slightly modify them to fit my context and go from there.



let us know if you've written more for that song! or if you tackled any other songs for that matter.

cheers!

[jamie.pope]

Originally posted by joeinthebox1980
let us know if you've written more for that song! or if you tackled any other songs for that matter.

cheers!

The song is now completed and is looking slightly different.

I went and met up with an old bassist i know, and we wrote the song together.

I played him the main riff and he was away with the wind...

It all FLOODED out:)

[rybread1969]

Sounds like you're on the right track jamie.

One bit of advice i will throw into the mix is to work on more than one piece at a time. Your work informs itself. In other words, if you're stuck with one song, a solution to it may lie in the way you work on another song.

I had an art professor in college that gave me that advice. He always said to work on at least 3 different paintings at once, because it forces you to constantly work. If you get stuck or bored with one piece, move on to the next one and something there will probably inspire you towards a solution towards the other ones. You learn the most during the actual act of working.

Good luck and keep up the rockin'.