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I'd like to hunt down a pre-Crate era Ampeg SVT head for my girlfriend (her current head isn't reliable enough). When did Crate take over Ampeg, and how much would I expect to pay for a pre-Crate SVT head?
She'll be running this through an Eden 1X15 cab.
avenger86
01.23.04, 4:12 PM
Actually, I beleive they are just owned by the same company, St Louis Music. Ampegs have always been made in the same factory, which is in St Louis, while Crates are made in Mexico or somewhere else for cheaper. So I don't think age will make any difference in your decision.
The SVT-CL/AV is the same as the old SVT's with the exception of having sockets for 6550's instead of 7027's. Now that 7027's are being made again it should be a simple enough job to switch them back over. Contrary to popular opinion however a change in the color of an amp doesn't effect the sound.:rolleyes:
All told picking up a 70's SVT will probably be cheaper than getting a new one though, ebay is probably your best bet they were going for $1000 US on average I think when I was looking.
I was told by a repair guy (the same person who's tearing out his hair over my girlfriend's current amp :rolleyes: ) that he sees a lot more post St. Louis Music Ampegs coming through his shop than pre-St. Louis Ampegs. He was saying the older Ampegs are *much* more reliable, which is why I'm directing my search in that direction. Thanks for everything so far.
Originally posted by Tommy T.
I disagree with crash. The older svt's/ampegs were built much better imo and sound different than the new ones. They used better-quality parts. Now they build them with the same stuff crate uses, that's why a lot of the amps look similar. They all have that black foam type of stuff. In general, any amp tech will tell you that ampegs quality went down after the merger. Not only that, the older svt's and the new ones don't sound the same one reason like you said is they use different tubes. Also, the new ones are basically a different amp; they use different parts and materials. Also the new ones have the master volumes and the equalizer switches and some even come in SS. The older ones have the rocker frequency switches, and the knobs for treble/ bass have more sound range in them etc. They sound different cause they're not the same amp. If you have to modify the new one.... Also the older ones look better too, I'm not implying that the chrome plating makes it sound better.
First off, get it out of your head that ampeg = crate. They are owned by the same parent company, that's it. Different factory different parts, everything.
Second, you're comparing the old SVT's to Ampegs entire line of modern amps. Ampeg made ss heads back in the 70's too, go look at a V-6B, awful amp.
If you're not implying that the aliminum front panel makes it sound better then what's the point even mentioning it? Besides that go look at a SVT-AV, it's got the aliminum face plate and blue/silver grill cloth.
With that said the control layout on the front is slightly different, I will give you that much. The slider switches for "ultra high" and "ultra low" have been replaced by two vertically stacked push buttons, same functionality just look different. The mid range frequency selection which was a 3 way slider has been replaced by a 5 position position pot, same functionality as the old switch but it also allows you to select two extra frequency ranges. The polarity switch which is on the front of the old SVT's is now on the back of the new ones, does the same thing but it's on the back instead of the front. Old SVT's didn't have a standby switch which was rather hard on tubes, that's been added on the new ones. The new amps also have an input gain (not for distortion) to help balance levels between different basses. The master volume has the same functionality as the old volum did they relabeled it when they added the input gain though.
A somewhat bigger change is that some of the old model SVT's came as 2 channel amps instead of 1 channel. In that case you'd have a second channel with only volume, treble, bass and the ultra hi/lo sliders. The channels were not switchable they required a second set of inputs.
I believe the cooling fan in the modern SVT's is also an addition, but most old model SVT's I've played around with had been modded to include one anyways, the amps get very hot and it's basically a necessity unless you're playing in a cooler.
Truly the only significant change that would prevent a new model SVT-AV/CL from achieving the same tone as an old model SVT is the tubes sockets were changed over to 6550's from 7027's. It's a change that was necessitated by the lack of a manufacturer for 7027's, as for how much work exactly it would be to change them over I can't guarantee as I haven't looked into it yet, I will when my tubes wear out, but I do know that old model SVT's could run 6550's in the 7027 sockets with nothing more than a rebias. I believe pin configuration would prevent you from doing the opposite but it should be a simple matter of replacing the sockets and getting the amp rebiased.
I own a SVT-AV and have spent alot of time in the last year and a half looking into the new and old model ampegs. Don't get me wrong I would love to have an old model SVT but it just wasn't feasible for me to do so. If you can find one somewhat locally, or atleast within a distance you'd be willing to drive for one, then yes defineatly get one of the old ones, it'll end up cheaper for you anyways. But if you can't get your hands on an older model SVT, don't ignore the SVT-AV or SVT- CL (same amp, AV is in the old colors) just because someone told you it "wasn't any good".
Originally posted by Tommy T.
I still stick by ampegs quality going down after the merger. Like I said the chrome plating is cosmetic and i don't imply that it affects the sound, that being said.... I have the original ampeg service manual, and the older svts compared to the new one being made looks much different. Looking at the various parts on the original ampeg, they're different than on the new manual. The replacements parts list is different; switches listed, control wirewound resistors, semiconductors, electrolytic capacitors, the original parts have different ohms and volts/ mfd?, so that's different. Under Tone Control Range the dB at Hertz are different. The Power supply requirements are different, weight is different, frequency response is different, dimensions listed are different, and the pics of the board viewed from copper side is different looking. The new one also has different tubes. To me that means different amp, and different sound. Any amp tech will tell you their two different amps. I think the old ones sound better too :p Ebay has some more pre svts also; around the g range Alecto.
Ampeg was bought by St. Louis Music, they didn't merge with Crate, they are still two very different companies they just happen to have the same parent company.
Beyond that yes, the parts list is different. As I pointed out in my previous post there have been additions to the amp, and some of the switches have been replaced with push buttons, etc. If forgot to mention that they put oversized transformers into the amp as well, all that does is reduce the strain on the transformers. The power supply requirements should be higher as the new amp comes with a fan stock from the factory, that uses extra power. Yes the circuit will look different as new things have been added to the amp such as the increased range on midrange selection, and the ability to set input gain. Yes there will be different frequency response, those spec you're reading are for two different models of tubes. Most if not all of the tonal differences between the amp: the headroom, overdrive (even if you have to go deaf to get it), all of that are due to the different characteristics of the tubes themselves.
Have you ever tried an old SVT that the owner had switched over to 6550's when 7027's went out of production? It's the same sound as the new CL/AV's.
From the sounds of it, I'm still going to look for a pre-SLM SVT (after I change my BVD's and eat a BLT!:p ;) ). I'm not sure about whether the pre-SLM's sound better than the post-SLM's (I know Victor Wooten endorses Ampeg, and he actually uses the things onstage and in the studio), but I've heard a few sources that say the pre-SLM Ampegs spend less time in the repair shop, and that's a pretty powerful argument right there. I'll let you know what we scrape up, and I have a feeling I'm going to be looking at either a B-15 Portaflex or a V4B as my next guitar amp! :D
Originally posted by Tommy T.
yeah those portaflexes are cool, don't some come with the head that electronically comes up out of the cab and the lights. v4's rock too.
I've never seen any Portaflexes that electronically rises from the cab, but I tried my Les Paul through one in a store and I fell in love with the tone; it was *so* thick! My girlfriend digs them because they're James Jamerson's choice. The only downside to the Portaflex was not enough headroom. I've seen some that you can bias for guitar as well, haven't tried one of those yet. There's one in the studio where I'll be doing some sessions, so I'll see if I can try it out during some down-time. :cool:
If you're looking for a guitar amp, check out the V-4 instead of the v-4B, basically the same thing except all the controls are set for guitar frequencies. The V-4B is still a great guitar amp though, had one for a while and it sounded better with my guitar than with my bass. The old reverb rockets are also great amps, can't say anything about the new ones though as I don't have any experience with them.
shaolinwhat
01.26.04, 3:13 PM
how do the old svt bass heads compare in size to the newer models, ie the svt-cl and the svt-350h? im asking because im getting an ata case for my 350h, but ill probably go for an older tube head down the road, will i probably need to get a new case too?
Originally posted by shaolinwhat
how do the old svt bass heads compare in size to the newer models, ie the svt-cl and the svt-350h? im asking because im getting an ata case for my 350h, but ill probably go for an older tube head down the road, will i probably need to get a new case too?
There a little different the I think the CL and the old model SVT are pretty close but the 350h is smaller than the CL by some if I remember right.
CL/AV Measures = 24 x 11.5 x 13
shaolinwhat
01.26.04, 7:46 PM
Originally posted by Crash
There a little different the I think the CL and the old model SVT are pretty close but the 350h is smaller than the CL by some if I remember right.
CL/AV Measures = 24 x 11.5 x 13
ive seen flight cases being sold as usable for both the classic and the 350h, so i think they are the same size.
Originally posted by Crash
If you're looking for a guitar amp, check out the V-4 instead of the v-4B, basically the same thing except all the controls are set for guitar frequencies. The V-4B is still a great guitar amp though, had one for a while and it sounded better with my guitar than with my bass. The old reverb rockets are also great amps, can't say anything about the new ones though as I don't have any experience with them.
Basically I tried my Les Paul through an ancient B-15 Portaflex and fell in love with the tone, so I'm wondering if I can get that sound with a bit more headroom. Maybe use it in tandem with my Prosonic.
I'd like to make a correction to my previous posts. The original SVT's ran on 6550's just like the new ones do. I got that confused with the V-4B, sorry about that.
And I really don't know much about the portaflex's sorry. There's the new reissue of that amp which is 100 watts but I don't know how it stacks up. They say the only real difference is more power and headroom but who knows. There were alot of different models of the portaflex amps, different speaker sizes, head vs. combo etc. some of them (one came with an 18" speaker) might have more power I really don't know.
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