Ambient Equipment Guide. (a huge thanks to fiveways for this)

[fiveways]

Reverb:

Alesis Quad/quad +/Quad GT- Amazing textural reverb. Good reverb chorus, good delays. Some OK modulations. The rotary speaker on the quad gt is nice. Bad side is global preamps on the quad GT you can;t bypass and the noise level is really high

Alesis Microverb/Midiverb-Offer even more reverb then the quad. Unit overload and distort in a very nice way. Again, noise is the drawback.

Boss SE-50/70 - Good reverbs. They can overlaod the unit at higher mix levels turning it into a distorted mess. The noise is almost 0 off these units. I use a SE-50 now(used to be a quad GT)

Zoom 507 reverb - good basic verb. Cheap as hell. No noise. Drawback is that the construction some people dislike. It is fine(I dig with one as my second reverb).

Boss RV series of pedal - I really dislike all of these. Best is the RV-2 and it is really noisey. the RV-3/5 are both cold and lifeless IMO.

Digitech Digiverb - Some really nice sound out of this. Really massive reverbs, issues is a batery last 10 minutes in it. And the reverse isn;t really all that hot.

Electro Harmonix Holy grail/holier grail-I really like the holy grail, but teh one I had was defective. The holier grail can be annoying as well(that much control should be foundd in a rack and not a pedal IMO). Do not buy these off ebay.

Korg DRV-1000 - My next reverb unit. Low noise, huge reverb times, a good reverse and knob! Problems are they are hard to find.

Boss RRV-10 rack - Not much info, if it sounds like a SE-50 and has low noise it will be in my rig as well.

Digitech XP400-Really bad. High Noise. Lame reverbs.

Lexicon units - Not much experence with them. Are teh standard for reverb in the recording world. Most are too high-fi for amboient(lower bit rate reverbs work better then newer stuff)

Digitech racks - neither here nor there. they work. Nothing more.

Delays:

A good analog delay should be in any ambient rig. Be is a Ibanez Ad-9, Boss DM-2, or even DOD's, raks, almost anything with 300-450 ms of delay that self oscillates.

Or you can use a good analog sim, liek a DL-4, or a DE-7(my favourite)

For digital delays, you should have at least 2. One can be anything with 800ms plus delay. The other shuld be a looper, with at least 4 second of sample time. DOD FX94, Digitech Digidelay, DL4, DD-20,DD-6, akai headrush, or a dedicated looper like a RC-20. The digitech GNX3 is a good multieffect for ambient because of th built in looping and ability to use the built in effect with the external switch($30 extra).

Other loopers include non static loopers, liek the PDS seres(tweaked for more time) by digitech. These work by setting the delays time, recroding it till it is layered, and putting on the repeat/hold. These are the best for recording drones. Maneco makes beautiful modern version of this type of looper. The Digitech PDS1002, 2000, and 20/20 are all cheap(by far teh 20/20 is best because ith a simple tweak you can get 20 seconds of delay out of it)

Other Effects:

PitchShifter-the boss Ps-2 is the slowdive pedal. I am not a huge fan of this box except as a delay. The boss PS-3 is AMAZING and should be on any ambient board. The digitech spacestation is anotehr one people like for string sounds. The PS-5 is a good pitchshift as well, but is missing a few of the modes from the PS-3 that make it my number one pitchshifter. the old ibanez harmonics delays are great for lowfi pitchshifting.

Phasers-Electro harmonix small stone is the best mass produced phaser for this type of music. MXR phase 100(re-issue or not) is second. These both havea wicked "airy" sweep and add pile of texture to a sound. Vintage choices are many, the old morely is what nobody(another ambeint guitarist on this board) swears by. Mu-tron bi=phases are amazing. the old roland phasers are great to (not boss). DOD FX20b is good for a cehap phase. the Akai intelliphase is a amazing and CHEAP phase(30 off ebay). I just picked up a old univox microfazer and am really impressed(using it as my second phase now)

Tremolo/vibrato-the dano trem is good and cheap. The Flip tube tremolo is AWESOME. most the rest I really dislike. The MM4 by line 6 has great tremolo and vibratos(true pitchshifting vibrato). The CE-5(slight mod, basically you add a second cable attached to nothing into the output B)/Marshall tremovibe are the only other vibratos on the market. I need to try the marshall again as the jacks are mislabeled.

Distortion - I use a rat. There are PILES of gain boxes and I think I have tried 50% of them. the rat won.

Feel free to add and ask questions. I love answering them.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
IMO, you need some flangers in that (then again, i'm a flange-geek, so of course i think that, eh?)

also, you need to note RDS delays for those who don't know'em.

what about filters, as well?

OK!

Flangers-A/DA flanger is the best. HAnds down. for cheaper alterative the DOD flange is good, and the old DOD flanger KICKS ASS. the Boss BF-1 would be the flange you would be most likely to see in my rig. For weird flange, I liek the gate on the boss BF-3 and the step on the digtech turboflange.

Digitech RDS delays-These are the rack mount version of the PDS series and are incredible. with a simle trim pot adjust, the RDS3.6/7.6 can have 20 some seconds of delay with no signal loss(or minimal). The RDS8000 and RDS4000 are also incredible.

Gibsom Digital Echoplex - Not included because they are hard to find to try out. Amazing unit. Ask Nobody.

Filters - this is a weird little world. I used to do it by plugging my guitar into a mono/poly. Now there are a vast amount of choivces. bang for the buck is the FM4 by line 6. The rest are mostly boutique and are hard to find everywhere to try out. I also suggest teh step flange on the digitech turboflange. Amazing sound. The electrix filterfactory is also neat, but some have grounding issues(mine did).

And there are the alesis desktop units.

[clifford]

Which of the reverb units have a decent reverse, if you dont mind answering. Since Im sure you're attempting to make this into a comprehensive post, I doubt that youd mind answering it again.

How do you feel about wahs or envelopes in ambient music?

Mogwai makes great noise with wah-like sounds (perhaps not exactly an ambient band, but you like them, and I can feel a little of their influence in the songs of your's Ive downloaded with my dial-up ( So slow..(the connection) :rolleyes: ))

[doingtheunstuck]

on flanging, another good candidate is the FL-9... standard "rock" flange, but works great for ambient stuff with some toying.

[clifford]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
on flanging, another good candidate is the FL-9... standard "rock" flange, but works great for ambient stuff with some toying.

And it self-oscillates! :D

[fiveways]

Originally posted by clifford
Which of the reverb units have a decent reverse, if you dont mind answering. Since Im sure you're attempting to make this into a comprehensive post, I doubt that youd mind answering it again.

How do you feel about wahs or envelopes in ambient music?

Mogwai makes great noise with wah-like sounds (perhaps not exactly an ambient band, but you like them, and I can feel a little of their influence in the songs of your's Ive downloaded with my dial-up ( So slow.. :rolleyes: ))

HOLY ****!!!!

I forgot YAMAHA SPX90/FX500-

GROUND ZERO FOR REVERSE. Other effects are good.

The modern ground zero ambient/gaze/whatever pedal is the magic stomp. Yamaha outdid themseleves on it.

[Springbokk]

not a fan of the deluxe electric mistress? it's a weird flange, if you set the rate above one it doesnt give u the sweep effect when using heavy distortion, I use it more for cleans sounds, it really does pink floyd well, especially the song "breathe"

[fiveways]

Boss RPS-10 - the first effect to introduce reverse pitchshifting and affordable reverse delays. Really lowfi sound and just beautiful. This is another device I will add to my rig.

[fiveways]

ALSO:

So you all know, I am avoiding expensive, boutique and rare gear as best I can. This is the "everymans" guide to getting great tones for this sort of music.

Thanks.

[fiveways]

CHORUS:

Small Clones are great to add shimmer to a huge reverb. That is my weapon of choice. The Boss CE-5 is a better vibrato then chorus. the old Boss CE-1 is amazing, but needs mods. There is a DOD Dual chorus that kicks ass. The old boss DC series of chorus is you one stop for cocteau twins type sounds. The old EH clone theory is amazing fro those sounds as well.

But, almost any decent chorus is good for this. CE-2, CE-3, many others.

[thurston]

Don't forget the EB Volume pedal for swells, whale sounds, killing the signal and letting your delays fade out.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by thurston
Don't forget the EB Volume pedal for swells, whale sounds, killing the signal and letting your delays fade out.

Any Volume pedal is good. I never use EB's, I think they are overpriced as a proel is just as good for 99% of people.

[fiveways]

More additions:

Whammy-I am not huge on this effect EXCEPT to bend Ebow sounds without moving your fingers......Or on guitar synths to bend string sounds.

Compressors-If you are like me and use a really clean tone a compressor will help add sustain. I suggest the Boss CS-1/2, DOD compressors(all are good) and MXR Dynacomps(Reissue or not).

Ring Mods - The Magicstomp has a OK ring mod. As does the quad GT. The EH ring mod is the only mid-priced one I can think of that is widely avalible that doesn't cost a fortune.

The fuzz pedal guide is coming. This will take me a while. Please say if you want it. I can also break this all down into basic lists if need be.

Ebows and slides are also great texture devices.

[clifford]

That PDS 20/20 looks awesome.. Ive never even heard of one. You make me want a lot of stuff man. :) How much are they going for, usually?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by clifford
That PDS 20/20 looks awesome.. Ive never even heard of one. You make me want a lot of stuff man. :) How much are they going for, usually?

I made clips of my tweaked PDS20/20

http://fiveways.illogic.net/clips

First 2.

Thanks:)

[fiveways]

KORG KAOSS PAD - Difficult to use on it's own, but if you have a sampler/looper/delay hold or just use the kaoss pad as a sampler and warp it after this thing can be COMPLETELY AWESOME. Real time control over reverb, delay, moduations, ring mods. destroy a sample and then have it come back to normal with a touch of the bypass switch.

I wish mines wasn;t completely ****ed.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by clifford
I would love a fuzz guide! There's so frickin many of them, it's overwhelming for someone without much experience with them, such as I.

Which DOD compressors have you tried?

Ok, the fuzz pedal guide in ambient music will take a bit as there are SO MANY OPTIONS.

and I have treid all DOD compressors, old and new alike. they all are very close to the same sound. DOD found a good tone and stuck with it(good for them unlike the boss CS-3 POS).

[fiveways]

Originally posted by clifford
What do you think of the Gonkulator?

I own one. Good for japanese style noise......Ahhhh. beyond that it is complete trash IMO.

[thurston]

Originally posted by fiveways
Any Volume pedal is good. I never use EB's, I think they are overpriced as a proel is just as good for 99% of people.

True, I really like the travel on the EB pedal over other pedals I have used. I just can't justify the expense to buy one right now.
I'm using POS morley WAH/Volume when I mess around with the ambient stuff right now. That pedal sucks tone like mad.

[duluxdog]

Ahh, nice thread! This is gonna be a great guide to people looking for noise/ambient stuff.

Just thought i'd add:

The Korg Kaoss Pad seems to die very easily. I know a local band that has gone through 3, and a friend who had one that also died!

[fiveways]

Originally posted by duluxdog
Ahh, nice thread! This is gonna be a great guide to people looking for noise/ambient stuff.

Just thought i'd add:

The Korg Kaoss Pad seems to die very easily. I know a local band that has gone through 3, and a friend who had one that also died!

Kaoss pad II rule though. they are all metal and work GREAT.

They are on my list of **** to buy.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by thurston
True, I really like the travel on the EB pedal over other pedals I have used. I just can't justify the expense to buy one right now.
I'm using POS morley WAH/Volume when I mess around with the ambient stuff right now. That pedal sucks tone like mad.

Get a passive proel. No loss at all. Cost $31.99 CDN NEW!

I love them. I might buy a third.

[Phantom Man]

Hey Fiveways, If I were to get a Boss PS-5 super shifter, where would be the best place for it in a chain? And anything else you can tell me about it because I dont have an opportunity to check one out. Thanks.

[matb]

I have a Microverb 3. You think it'll be better to get a quardaverb GT or maybe one of the Yamaha units?

Also, how's the marshall ED-1 compressor? I've only heard good things but never tried one.

Can't wait until you get the fuzz guide up.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Phantom Man
Hey Fiveways, If I were to get a Boss PS-5 super shifter, where would be the best place for it in a chain? And anything else you can tell me about it because I dont have an opportunity to check one out. Thanks.

What are you using it for? What sound do you want out of it?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by matb
I have a Microverb 3. You think it'll be better to get a quardaverb GT or maybe one of the Yamaha units?

Also, how's the marshall ED-1 compressor? I've only heard good things but never tried one.

Can't wait until you get the fuzz guide up.

What don't you like about the Midiverb III? If it is noise, then look to the yamaha's/boss se-50 field.

the ED-1 I haven;t tried.

and the fuzz guide is gonna be a WHORE. But worth it. I seriously am looking foward to this. I will probably do a seperate delay guide as well, because there are PILES of analog delays that people ignore. And DDL racks/half racks.

[screamingdaisy]

Originally posted by fiveways
Get a passive proel. No loss at all. Cost $31.99 CDN NEW!

I love them. I might buy a third.

What resistance pots do they have?

I need somewhere between 10 and 100kohm for an expression pedal.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by screamingdaisy
What resistance pots do they have?

I need somewhere between 10 and 100kohm for an expression pedal.

I'll break out a screwdrive and see if I can find out for you:).

[Phantom Man]

Originally posted by fiveways
What are you using it for? What sound do you want out of it?

See, thats what I'm not sure of. I guess sort of like what a whammy would be used for. I'm just not sure if theirs a set spot for these kind of pedals. Like before dist., after. I'm just not sure.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Phantom Man
See, thats what I'm not sure of. I guess sort of like what a whammy would be used for. I'm just not sure if theirs a set spot for these kind of pedals. Like before dist., after. I'm just not sure.

I set mine PRE Gain, as they I think they track better this a clean input signal. Just my opinion. I also find glitching is more apperent post gain(unless you want to be perverse).

[YOuAre]

I personally love the h2o myself, very nice chorus, and beautiful delay, its digital, but a very good analogue recreation.

[screamingdaisy]

Originally posted by fiveways
I'll break out a screwdrive and see if I can find out for you:).

Point taken. :)

I found the .pdf online, they're all 100kohm

[Maneco]

Originally posted by fiveways
CHORUS:

The old boss DC series of chorus is you one stop for cocteau twins type sounds. The old EH clone theory is amazing fro those sounds as well.



Dear Fiveways,
i couldn´t agree more...i'm a big Cocteau Twins fan,and i built a clone of the dimension c,perfect,even for running female voice through and get that Liz Frazer sound (if the singer is up to the task,of course)...and i received a clone theory and a vintage memory man(the one with four sad1024) as a present from a friend,and now i can sound like "GARLANDS" and "HEAD OVER HEELS"...;)
regarding ambient equipment,i use the two octaves up of the whammy,i have the black one and the xp100,then i feed my quadraverb 2 with a patch of several modulations and delays...that way you can add background textures and noisy ambient sounds

keep in touch

Maneco

[matb]

Originally posted by fiveways
What don't you like about the Midiverb III? If it is noise, then look to the yamaha's/boss se-50 field.

the ED-1 I haven;t tried.

and the fuzz guide is gonna be a WHORE. But worth it. I seriously am looking foward to this. I will probably do a seperate delay guide as well, because there are PILES of analog delays that people ignore. And DDL racks/half racks.

The noise and the lack of MIDI support kind of suck. Besides that, it's got some good reverbs. How much do the Yamaha's or the Boss' generally run for?

[G6add9]

Originally posted by fiveways
Digitech Digiverb - Some really nice sound out of this. Really massive reverbs, issues is a batery last 10 minutes in it. And the reverse isn;t really all that hot.
looks like a good first reverb unit ^

see, I told you that 5 ways is da man. soundclips, data, pics...cool

[Cupid0]

I disagree about the Alesis units being noisy. It's a probably a unit by unit thing. Mine is totally silent.

[Cupid0]

if you have the $$$$ a filter with lots of knobs and a gain stage (like my Modmax) are amazing for ambient sounds. They let you shape it however you want. I find i can totally make clean guitar sound like an analog synth square wave, and I can't even describe what it does when i bust out the 100% wet reverb...

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Cupid0
I disagree about the Alesis units being noisy. It's a probably a unit by unit thing. Mine is totally silent.

If your is you are lucky.

Guitar -Alesis-amp = noise fest. Every alesis unit i have ever heard is like that. If you have one that is other, I would love to hear it.

My amp is silent until I add it. Maybe you have more of a tolerence for added noise then I do.

[Rock A My Soul]

This is a Very Informative Post. I bookmarked it so that I'll have a pocket guide to your opinions on everything. A comment:
Originally posted by fiveways
Marshall tremovibe are the only other vibratos on the market. I need to try the marshall again as the jacks are mislabeled.

The jacks are indeed mislabelled, but the vibrato still blows. It's more like a tremolo that just goes wider, if you know what I mean. Still not pitch-shifting. Average tremolo, but for a vibrato it sucks. If you try it, be sure to try it with an adaptor too, with batteries it sounds terrible.

And don't forget to mention that the Rat is a pre-2000. I didn't know about this discrepancy until about a week ago when there was a sudden flurry of threads about them.

[Alecto]

Any self-respecting ambient guitarist must have an E-bow! And a quarter. :D

[duluxdog]

Originally posted by Rock A My Soul
And don't forget to mention that the Rat is a pre-1990. I didn't know about this discrepancy until about a week ago when there was a sudden flurry of threads about them.

dude, it's pre 2000, i think

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Rock A My Soul
This is a Very Informative Post. I bookmarked it so that I'll have a pocket guide to your opinions on everything. A comment:

The jacks are indeed mislabelled, but the vibrato still blows. It's more like a tremolo that just goes wider, if you know what I mean. Still not pitch-shifting. Average tremolo, but for a vibrato it sucks. If you try it, be sure to try it with an adaptor too, with batteries it sounds terrible.

And don't forget to mention that the Rat is a pre-1990. I didn't know about this discrepancy until about a week ago when there was a sudden flurry of threads about them.

I noticed it sounded at points almost like a step filter....any truth to this.

[nobody]

Originally posted by fiveways
If your is you are lucky.

Guitar -Alesis-amp = noise fest. Every alesis unit i have ever heard is like that. If you have one that is other, I would love to hear it.

He's right, though. It is a unit by unit thing. My GT is notably more noisy than my g/f's GT. Her's is fairly silent, so is her Wedge.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by nobody
He's right, though. It is a unit by unit thing. My GT is notably more noisy than my g/f's GT. Her's is fairly silent, so is her Wedge.

Wow. Every alesis unit I have heard has driven me nuts with noise. From quads(any type) to all the various midiverbs. The Nanoverb was the quietest of them all....

[Rock A My Soul]

Originally posted by duluxdog
dude, it's pre 2000, i think

Whoops. You're indeed right. It was pretty late and I got confused with the post where Ice Age Coming said he got a 1990 Rat. It's fixed.

[idealflaw]

Originally posted by Cupid0
I disagree about the Alesis units being noisy. It's a probably a unit by unit thing. Mine is totally silent.

i dissagree with you. EVERY, and i mean absolutely EVERY alesis unit I've ever owned has been noisy. Not noisy in the sense of humming, but in the relm of tone-loss, i've had absolutely nothing worse.

i still own a nano-verb, and the reverbs are beaut, but they're too sensitive and clip at the slightest dynamic. yuk...

i stick to pedals: Digiverb and RV-3...
just easier. w 2 verbs and 3 delays on my board, i'm pretty welll covered..

BTW, I have a very similar rig to what he said.

[Surferosad]

My nanoverb is pretty noisy. It wooshes and fizes all the time, and it sucks tone too. I have to keep it out of my signal path when i'm not using it.

[greek_acrobat]

Fiveways, thankyou. This thread is amazing.

I have a Holy Grail and I'm having trouble with it. It's my first dedicated reverb and I really don't like it when it goes past 12o'clock on the knob. I'm wanting really huge reverbs but I find the HG unusable up there.

Would it be worth me looking into some rack units? The Boss SEs? Microverb? Maybe the 507 would be worth it if it's cheap.

How does the Magicstomp do on the reverb front?

Also, what's the slowest phaser on the market (that you know of)??

Excuse all the questions but you asked for 'em. :p

Thanks again.

[duluxdog]

ahh.. a long time ago, there was a 'Space Rock Pedals' thread.. there might be something interesting reading in there too:

http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7700&highlight=space+rock+pedals

From that, how about Vocoders? Does anyone know much about these? I think they have a place in ambient music.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by duluxdog
ahh.. a long time ago, there was a 'Space Rock Pedals' thread.. there might be something interesting reading in there too:

http://guitargeek.com/chat/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7700&highlight=space+rock+pedals

From that, how about Vocoders? Does anyone know much about these? I think they have a place in ambient music.

I USE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love vocoders. All my vocal songs are vocoded.

I cannot express my love for the vocoder enough.

I could write a book on vocoders, the good and the bad.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by greek_acrobat
Fiveways, thankyou. This thread is amazing.

I have a Holy Grail and I'm having trouble with it. It's my first dedicated reverb and I really don't like it when it goes past 12o'clock on the knob. I'm wanting really huge reverbs but I find the HG unusable up there.

Would it be worth me looking into some rack units? The Boss SEs? Microverb? Maybe the 507 would be worth it if it's cheap.

How does the Magicstomp do on the reverb front?

Also, what's the slowest phaser on the market (that you know of)??

Excuse all the questions but you asked for 'em. :p

Thanks again.

Teh 507 is CHEAP. So are se-50 now. Both are really good. I love them.

the magic stomp is apperently amazing. I haven;t heard it in full effect yet, so I will have to pass on a solid opinion.

The slowest phaser I have ever heard is the old moog rack phaser or the phase in a arp 2600. The Biphase can also get hella long sweeps.

There you go.:)

[Coke Babies]

Is the 507 noisy?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Coke Babies
Is the 507 noisy?

Not a bit. Either with adaptor or battery.

Seriously, I keep TRYING to get it off my board, and it just doesn;t work.

[BmoreTele]

This thread looks like fun! Lemme jump right in -

Slowest phaser = infinitphase or TC XII Programmable Phaser (you can actually stop the TC XII)

PDS 20/20 - there is some sound degradation when you tweak the delay time and max it out - echoey, space tone like. I like to set up a loop, twiddle it into space and then come back to earth.

SPX90 - excellent, stereo, panning, pitch shifting, all sorts of reverb and early reflections.

Alesis - for a short time, the ModFx boxes are being blown out for $50 each at MF. Phase, flange, tremolo and autopan, vocoder, resonant filter - all could give great ambient sounds. AS long as you realize they were designed for DJ's to use, that you need to run them in an fx loop or off your mixer, or you can run them after a good line buffer amp sim like the Morley JD-10, and that you can turn them on and off with an $8 sustain pedal from Radio Shack.

After all - the ambient music world is supposed to use weird tools.

a new outfit I'm checking out is eowave in France - again line level effects, but very interesting - low pass filter, sequenced filter, ring mod - all analog and 169 Euros each. Phase and delay units coming.

Anyware in Germany makes the Megapole Lite, another powerful analog resonant filter for about 150 Euros.

For other cheap fx, don't count out the Arion line, specifically the Phaser, Flanger, Octave, and Analog Delay. All but the octave are stereo. The SAD-1 delay is the king, the SAD-3 is just fair.

Then there's Big Jam by Multivox - getting harder to find, the analog delay/reverb, BiPhase, FlanJam, and Spit Wah (I love that name!) are all great little boxes.

Now go make noise!

[fiveways]

Originally posted by BmoreTele
This thread looks like fun! Lemme jump right in -

Slowest phaser = infinitphase or TC XII Programmable Phaser (you can actually stop the TC XII)

PDS 20/20 - there is some sound degradation when you tweak the delay time and max it out - echoey, space tone like. I like to set up a loop, twiddle it into space and then come back to earth.

SPX90 - excellent, stereo, panning, pitch shifting, all sorts of reverb and early reflections.

Alesis - for a short time, the ModFx boxes are being blown out for $50 each at MF. Phase, flange, tremolo and autopan, vocoder, resonant filter - all could give great ambient sounds. AS long as you realize they were designed for DJ's to use, that you need to run them in an fx loop or off your mixer, or you can run them after a good line buffer amp sim like the Morley JD-10, and that you can turn them on and off with an $8 sustain pedal from Radio Shack.

After all - the ambient music world is supposed to use weird tools.

a new outfit I'm checking out is eowave in France - again line level effects, but very interesting - low pass filter, sequenced filter, ring mod - all analog and 169 Euros each. Phase and delay units coming.

Anyware in Germany makes the Megapole Lite, another powerful analog resonant filter for about 150 Euros.

For other cheap fx, don't count out the Arion line, specifically the Phaser, Flanger, Octave, and Analog Delay. All but the octave are stereo. The SAD-1 delay is the king, the SAD-3 is just fair.

Then there's Big Jam by Multivox - getting harder to find, the analog delay/reverb, BiPhase, FlanJam, and Spit Wah (I love that name!) are all great little boxes.

Now go make noise!

I mentioned the alesis's but didn't get into them....you saved me that post:)

They are wonderful and are STILL being blown out for $50.....If only I lived in the US. Though, I might get a friend to order them all for me....or at least the flanger, phase, filter, tremolo, and vocoder.

And arion are great boxes as well. There older DDL's are wickedly lowfi and spit out some really interesting sounds.

[Rock A My Soul]

Originally posted by fiveways
I mentioned the alesis's but didn't get into them....you saved me that post:)

They are wonderful and are STILL being blown out for $50.....If only I lived in the US. Though, I might get a friend to order them all for me....or at least the flanger, phase, filter, tremolo, and vocoder.

How are the tremolo, phaser and filter? I'm downloading the manuals but my computer is ridiculously slow.

[BmoreTele]

Originally posted by Rock A My Soul
How are the tremolo, phaser and filter? I'm downloading the manuals but my computer is ridiculously slow.
Those are the three I have: the Philtre, Faze, and Ampliton (don't you just love marketing?)

The Philtre does HP, LP, BP, and band stop. The speed control, like all the ModFx I've tried has a very wide range - from verrry slow to ring mod. The typical rsonant filter sweeps are all here plus a random pattern mode and a sample & hold mode. There is also an envelope riggered mode which I have not mastered. Huge sounds, speaker rattling, tooth shattering, and sweet too.

The Faze has five phaser modes, three of which play with the stereo filed. Oh, did I mention, all the ModFx are stereo in and out. The Faze has the pattern and S&H modes as well as an envelope and uncertianty mode.

The Ampliton has square wave or triangle wave tremolo with a triggered and random pattern mode. It also has autopanning with simialr modes. You can use the pan side as a second LFO and get syncopated tremolo.

And all three of these have tap tempo too.

The Phlangr has similar controls plus a Through Zero mode - watch out Dave Fox!

A special note - each unit comes with its own power supply - a 9V AC wall wart with a whopping 830 mA, so don't expect to run them off your Boss plugs.

If you set them up right, accounting for their line level preferences, you can get some cool sounds for cheap.

[duluxdog]

Originally posted by BmoreTele

For other cheap fx, don't count out the Arion line, specifically the Phaser, Flanger, Octave, and Analog Delay. All but the octave are stereo. The SAD-1 delay is the king, the SAD-3 is just fair.


Yeh, I do like my SAD-3. Haven't tried a SAD-1 before, but mine is okay for now.. great lo-fi delay and especially great theremin-like oscillation.

[fiveways]

delay and fuzz guide tomorrow boys and girls.

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by fiveways
OK....

UPDATE!

I am still working on the fuzz and delay(more the fuzz) as there are too many gain pedals out there.

God, why did I ever start this?

the fuzz, are you going onto just "general gain," "general high gain" or only fizzy stuff? as an example, would the ibanez BN-5 be able to be included (black noise from the soundtank series)?

just curious:)

[fiveways]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
the fuzz, are you going onto just "general gain," "general high gain" or only fizzy stuff? as an example, would the ibanez BN-5 be able to be included (black noise from the soundtank series)?

just curious:)

gain.

[fiveways]

Here we go:

The Fuzz guide for ambient/effect based guitar. Now, I have owned a lot of gain pedals. How many? I seriously hav lost count at this point. Now, I am gonna try to stick with the 3 main sections of drive, and add in a bit about boosters.

OVERDRIVE:

True be told, I hate most stock OD pedals for ambient sounds. The excepts are the DOD Juicebox, Vox Valetone, and the TS-5 tubescreamer. Think I am drunk? Here is why...

Most stock OD pedals are either to shrill, jagged, or mid-humpish to server well in this application. Add a overly midish signal to a Good reverb and watch what happens. Sonic Goo in a really bad way. You can use a EQ to fix this, but what is the point if you can get a decen alternative much cheaper. The TS-5 is a favourite because the boosted range in that pedal is much like a rat, a lower mid bump(and a subtle one at that). It produces a nice rounded gain tone that goes great with a good reverb sound. The DOD Juicebox is one of the few stock OD that at the lowest setting add just a boost(no gain). The OD in it is voice almost exactly liek a Vox valvetone but it features a 2 knob EQ over the typical one knob eq, meaning you have alot more choices, I suggest you don;t ever turn the gain knob above 2 oclock. The vox valvetone is a excellent overdrive pedal and ends it's gain spectrum where the DOD should have ended. To my ears it is a prefectly voiced OD for both rock and non-rock application. A great forgotten pedal(the price on ebay reflect how good this box was).

Most the rest? BD-2 I found to shrill stock(I hated mine). SD-1 are OK at best. TS-9(any of them) have too much midrange. All the rest of the DOD Overdrives suck. As do most of the stock boss OD pedals.

DISTORTION:

I am breaking this into two categories. SHEEN and DEFINITION. SHEEN is adding distortion to a MASSIVE wall of reverb to produce a semi-tonal wall of gain, DEFINITION is a more traditional gain sound, that is used for more traditional applications. To being, I will discuss the ONLY pedal tht works, IMO for both.

OK, IMO, for ambient guitar sound the one stop is the RAT II. With a touch of extra gain/volume then a vintage rat, it works better with massive verb then 99% of thre boxes on earth. It can also capture good traditional distortion sounds as well, and if combinded with a boost/dark OD/Compressor(light helping) can produce infinite sustain. It also produces the nicest and most natural sounding feedback I have ever heard out of a stompbox. Look for the older models without silent switching for the truest sound(the late ones are hit and miss, I have one that sounds almost exactly like my much loved and abused rat).

SHEEN: There are a bunch of good ones for this.....Most of the time you want a pedal with a 2 knob EQ. My favourite is the old Boss HM-2 heavy metal. This pedal has a pile of distortion sounds, and can creatre really beautiful walls of distortions. Chords blend into eachother and it can create a beautiful tonal mess. Adjust the EQ in real time and you are in for a very strange reverb wall. My second is the Dano Fabtone, alot like the HM-2, just with more gain. Personally, It had too much volume for me and cause my amp to turn into a distorted mess most of the time. Third is a Stock DS-1/DF-2. combind with a decent reverb and these things will actually sound good at providing a semi-tonal wall. The lack of definition actually work in this pedals favour at that point in time. The DF-2 is a nice treat as you can add the synthy feedbacker function to the mess. Good for drones(grab a loop of it and go from there for instant improv fun). The MXR D+ is also OK at this, but is too trebley for my tastes(any of them). But if that is what you have, it will defidently do(the Black plastic ones are used by a band names sainspheric and they get a great sheen tone out of them).

I haven;t tried a shredmaster in years. So I can't commnet(anyone want to loan me one?:))

OH!!! The really old Zoom driver? http://www.harshnoise.com/product_info/zoom_driver_5000 This pedal can get some really mangled sheen tones. Just disgusting. This pedal has a future in someones board, much liek the shin-ei was used with the jesus and mary chian.

DEFINITION:

All I like here are Rats and the Ibanez SD-9. I want to try the metal driver from the 9 series of pedals as well(a friend has it, I really should borrow it to give a try). All the rest sound just weird to my ears. Lack...something. (I will also say this is looking, again, only at STOCK pedals).

IS IT A FUZZ IS IT A DISTORTION?

Only 2 pedals I can think of work with this, the above HM-2, and the good old big muff. The muff is good-very good at sheen. Just....Overused at this point it time? I don;t know, I hear the sound everywhere and go "Yep, thats a muf alright".

FUZZ:

This is a category that personal taste is everything in. I will say one thing, You can get the super death sounds of many classic fuzz unit dirt cheap. You just have to listen and ignore what the pedal looks like.

For years, my main sonic toys were foxx tonemachines/wahs. The Fuzz in them is just like a Fender Blender only even uglier. Know what? The Danelectro french Toast sounds EXACTLY like it. I sold my 3 foxx's and bought 2 dano's(and made a killer amount of $$$ to spen on other gear). The dano french toast is a NASTY little fuzz pedal. With the switch up it is bigger then a muff, with it down it is great for chording with massive amounts of reverb because of the octave setting. It is such a nasty, end of the world sheen sound. Just overtakes all freqs. and destroys a guitar sound. Granted, I have left these sounds behind now, but still, it is fun once in a while.

DOD FX52-Poor mans Big Muff. Why spend over $30 on a USA big muff when you can get one of these USA made pedal with a buffered bypass? Quiet and awesome.

Boss FZ2-I disliked this pedal for anything but drum machines. just too much. Setting one is more usable then setting 2 IMO, but only if you want a very industrial sound to apply to reverb. NIN fans who want a gazy edge look here.

Roland BeeBaa-This may be the best gain pedal ever made. Not only does it have a built in boost, but 2 great sounding fuzz's. The FZ-2 attempted to capture the magic of this pedal. It failed. The BeeBaa can sound so massive and evil it is unbelievable. Seriously, try one if you see it, just remember to turn up the volume a bit fro it to really come alive.

Shin-Ei-The only fuzzwah I have left from my collection(which I won;t bore you with). I only picked this up a few months ago for a steal. And yes....It sounds like the JAMC. I figure that is what most of you want to know. Remember to use a hollowbody.

And yes, the first thing I played on it was "Just Like Honey"

Others: The old Ibanez fuzz's are great. The EH graphic fuzz is a awesome pedal(with a pile of control). God, there are SO MANY FUZZ PEDAL.

This is not a overall list, but a starting point. If you want my opinion on any fuzz/od/dist. just ask here and if I have used it I will tell you what I think. View this more as a beginners guide than anything else.

Thanks, and look for the delay list/lists(as we all know I am a delay fanatic) later today.

[fiveways]

BOOST PEDALS:

OK I forgot boosts. Anything will do. I use a DDO Bifet preamp and a DOD Juciebox to add volume and shape tone. the MXr microamp is great as well. basically, if it adds volume and doesn't rape your sound it is good enough for me:).

[nobody]

Originally posted by fiveways
The vox valvetone is a excellent overdrive pedal and ends it's gain spectrum where the DOD should have ended. To my ears it is a prefectly voiced OD for both rock and non-rock application. A great forgotten pedal(the price on ebay reflect how good this box was).

Most the rest? BD-2 I found to shrill stock(I hated mine).

I just got a Valve Tone last week and yeah, it's so much smoother and toneful than my BD-2. And even after a mod the tone knob on my BD-2 is too shrill. I didn't really notice it live, but the shrillness really sticks out when it's recorded with an SM-57. As much as a praise Indyguitarist's mod to my BD-2, there are certain design flaws inherent to the pedal that just can't be rectified. So, my BD-2 is on permanent clean boost duty until I get my homemade clean boost built.

[zepolant]

Originally posted by fiveways
If your is you are lucky.

Guitar -Alesis-amp = noise fest. Every alesis unit i have ever heard is like that. If you have one that is other, I would love to hear it.

My amp is silent until I add it. Maybe you have more of a tolerence for added noise then I do.

Odd, my MidiVerb 4 is quiet as well. It's last in my chain (I don't run my racks through the fx loop of my amp). I'll try to post a clip somehow.

Glad you add the Yamaha FX/500 on your list. I love mine. I just need a big case so I can add the thing.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by zepolant
Odd, my MidiVerb 4 is quiet as well. It's last in my chain (I don't run my racks through the fx loop of my amp). I'll try to post a clip somehow.

Glad you add the Yamaha FX/500 on your list. I love mine. I just need a big case so I can add the thing.

I try to avoid reverbs with over 12bit processing. I find I like lowfi reverb better. So that dates most my reverb choices pre-1995.

[zepolant]

Originally posted by fiveways
I try to avoid reverbs with over 12bit processing. I find I like lowfi reverb better. So that dates most my reverb choices pre-1995.

Understood. If my Midiverb went out it would not be that great of a loss to me (although I like it). My main source of reverb is my Digitech DSP-128. The reverse verbs are good and the chours and delays are not bad either. I'm always on the look out for another one. They usually sell on eBay for about $40 bucks.


Side note for the Fuzz/Distorition - I prefer my DOD Supra Distortion, although it is a "distortion" I can get a nice fuzz out of it. It cuts through the verb, and when it is turned off the trail off is nice, not an abrupt cut out.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by zepolant
Understood. If my Midiverb went out it would not be that great of a loss to me (although I like it). My main source of reverb is my Digitech DSP-128. The reverse verbs are good and the chours and delays are not bad either. I'm always on the look out for another one. They usually sell on eBay for about $40 bucks.


Side note for the Fuzz/Distorition - I prefer my DOD Supra Distortion, although it is a "distortion" I can get a nice fuzz out of it. It cuts through the verb, and when it is turned off the trail off is nice, not an abrupt cut out.

I've actually never tried either of those boxes, but have seen them around a lot. Cool info, I will defidently try the Digitech out(because I want a good reverb still).

though, I have to admit a magic stomp is probably my next effect.

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by fiveways
Others: The old Ibanez fuzz's are great.

i want to second the ibanez one.... all of my current gain comes from four ibanez gain units at this point and i'm quite happy with'em.... IMO, the old soundtank BN-5 is one of the nicest gains i've worked with and i've been around a disgusting amount of gains. don't try the BN-5 if you want a bass heavy sound though... i cut my bass frequencies, so it works wonders for me.

[Kid_BS]

I know you guys are trying to stay away from boutique pedals in this list, but the Fulltone Fulldrive II is the best overdrive pedal I have ever played or heard. It is very smooth. It might cost more than other overdrives, but to me it has more than been worth it. Really, if you are buying another pedal only to get it modded, why not pay a little more for true beauty out of the box.

Functions as a volume booster and overdrive. It's all that I need to boost my Orange amps into gain heaven. Doesn't change my amp's tone and all of my notes stay articulate and defined.

[Rock A My Soul]

Hey Shane, what do you know about analog reverbs? What kind of options are there for someone who gets an amp without reverb but wants the closest thing to amp reverb they can get? Fender makes a reverb unit, there's the Danelectro Spring King, the Little Lanilei. What do you think about it?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Kid_BS
I know you guys are trying to stay away from boutique pedals in this list, but the Fulltone Fulldrive II is the best overdrive pedal I have ever played or heard. It is very smooth. It might cost more than other overdrives, but to me it has more than been worth it. Really, if you are buying another pedal only to get it modded, why not pay a little more for true beauty out of the box.

Functions as a volume booster and overdrive. It's all that I need to boost my Orange amps into gain heaven. Doesn't change my amp's tone and all of my notes stay articulate and defined.

See, I don;t understand teh buying a pedal to mod thing(I usnerstanding bending a pedal though) unless it can be really cool(I bought my PDS20/20 with the knowledge I could get 20 second of delay out of it). And I have never tried the Fulltone. To much money for me to even think about when I only need a volume boost and a rat:).

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Rock A My Soul
Hey Shane, what do you know about analog reverbs? What kind of options are there for someone who gets an amp without reverb but wants the closest thing to amp reverb they can get? Fender makes a reverb unit, there's the Danelectro Spring King, the Little Lanilei. What do you think about it?

Fender is great. the peavy valverb, dano, and half theother I have tried all stunk. Just lifeless units. The kendrick I tried was AWESOME but $900 CDN used. The Little Lanilei I have never seen, but would love to try.

My regret is I didn;t buy a traynor tube tank for $50 in the 1990's. They are excellent tanks, but sell for $400 now.

Truth be told though, I find most stock spring reverbs really cold. Fender and esp. old ampegs are the exception. Most the time, I'd rather 2 good racks.

[nobody]

Originally posted by Rock A My Soul
Hey Shane, what do you know about analog reverbs? What kind of options are there for someone who gets an amp without reverb but wants the closest thing to amp reverb they can get? Fender makes a reverb unit, there's the Danelectro Spring King, the Little Lanilei. What do you think about it?

The Vanamps Reverbmate.

http://vanamps.com/reverbamate.html

[ThinPaperWings]

I use the VanAmp. It sounds lovely. No super long tails, but it is just spring verb. I recommend it for analog freaks. (it's true bypass as well).

[nobody]

Originally posted by ThinPaperWings
I use the VanAmp. It sounds lovely. No super long tails, but it is just spring verb. I recommend it for analog freaks. (it's true bypass as well).

And since it uses standard Accutronics tanks, you can always get a longer delay one.

[Rock A My Soul]

Originally posted by nobody
The Vanamps Reverbmate.

http://vanamps.com/reverbamate.html

Aha! That's the one I was thinking of. I remembered seeing that page but I thought it might have been a Little Lanilei.

I was just wondering: how do two reverbs in series sound? Does it make a huge difference in sound or does it just sound like a big mess?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Rock A My Soul
AhI was just wondering: how do two reverbs in series sound? Does it make a huge difference in sound or does it just sound like a big mess?

I use that all the time as very few reverbs trail why you bypass them. usually a large consumes a smaller reverb. The smaller isn;t apperent until you bypass the massive reverb and it trails off

[boyecho]

Originally posted by fiveways
I use that all the time as very few reverbs trail why you bypass them. usually a large consumes a smaller reverb. The smaller isn;t apperent until you bypass the massive reverb and it trails off

i had a loop for a very short time, and when i'd bypass my fender reverb, the long death surf verb would trail out with my ampeg's reverb. it's nice.

[gary]

Excellent guide fiveways, even though it's taken me nearly a week to find the time to read it start to finish!

I'd like to know a little more about the PDS 20/20. Is there an online source for info about the stock pedal? Incidentally, what is the unmodded delay time and is this a 12-bit pedal?

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by gary
Excellent guide fiveways, even though it's taken me nearly a week to find the time to read it start to finish!

I'd like to know a little more about the PDS 20/20. Is there an online source for info about the stock pedal? Incidentally, what is the unmodded delay time and is this a 12-bit pedal?

any sites? not as far as i know... fiveways might.

if i remember right, the stock delay time is just like 2 seconds.....

it's also got flanging/chorus on it, but neither are very good, IMO... and it's a one-effect-at-a-time box.

harmony-central reviews (http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Data/DigiTech/PDS_20_20_Delay_Pedal-01.html) and loopers-delight are probably the best places for info that i know of on this unit... as usual, on HC.. be careful about info.. but it's not too hard to sort through the good/bad info.

[BmoreTele]

The Digitech PDS 20/20 has a maximum of 2 seconds of delay time (in the un-modded form). It is a 12 bit digital delay with modulation controls (speed and depth). Leaving the modualtion controls at zero, the pedal is a straight delay with 3 ranges: 16 ms, 250 ms, and 2 seconds. A regeneration knob controls the number of repeats. At the lower delay times, the modulation controls can give flanger and chorus type sounds. At higher delay times, the modulation controls put out cyclic pitch shifting noisies.

It has stereo outs and is powerd by a 9V battery (for a couple hours, tops) or a power supply with an 1/8" jack.

The delay time trimpot can be tweaked out to a max of 20 seconds of delay, but the delay sound really starts degenerating into muddy metallic crap at those extremes. The regeneration control can be tweaked to yield runaway self oscillation that can blow up your amp. Big fun!

Here's the manual in Adobe PDF

http://www.digitech.com/ftp_mirror/PDFs/Discontinued%20Products/Manuals/PDS2020.pdf

[fiveways]

Originally posted by BmoreTele
The delay time trimpot can be tweaked out to a max of 20 seconds of delay, but the delay sound really starts degenerating into muddy metallic crap at those extremes. The regeneration control can be tweaked to yield runaway self oscillation that can blow up your amp. Big fun!

Here's the manual in Adobe PDF

http://www.digitech.com/ftp_mirror/PDFs/Discontinued%20Products/Manuals/PDS2020.pdf

Which is the joy of this pedal. Lowfi looping at it's best:)

[clifford]

What do you think of the UF-01? I thought you were a supporter.. maybe it was just Nobody and Preservation who triggered that purchase, I dont really remember..

I desperatley need to try a Rat, Im a complete virgin to all things ProCo. I too like the SD-9.. the compression can get a little annoying, but it's extremely tasty with my single coil.

Are the BeeBaa's hard to come by? I havent heard much about them at all

[fiveways]

Originally posted by clifford
What do you think of the UF-01? I thought you were a supporter.. maybe it was just Nobody and Preservation who triggered that purchase, I dont really remember..

I desperatley need to try a Rat, Im a complete virgin to all things ProCo. I too like the SD-9.. the compression can get a little annoying, but it's extremely tasty with my single coil.

Are the BeeBaa's hard to come by? I havent heard much about them at all

**** I forgot the ultra fuzz!!!! I ment to put that in under "WEIRD FUZZ'S THAT CAN BE TOTAL NOISEMAKERS"

And good luck finding a BeeBaa for under $450 USD. They are rare and totally amazing.

[preservation]

THE ULTRA FUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[mnemonic]

Prophecysound makes a BeeBea clone, although it may be just as expensive.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by mnemonic
Prophecysound makes a BeeBea clone, although it may be just as expensive.

Yeah, they seem about equal in pricing.

[coughingcat]

great thread, got in alittle late tho

anyway speaking of the beebaa, has anyone tried the roland beegee ? tested it .....the crunch and bite of this pedal is IT.

this is the kind of thread for me, as im doing ambient stuff as well....i noticed no one mentioned tape delays ?? my bandmate acquired a roland space echo, the delays are as smooth as butter....give it a little tweaking and stuff and the texture is unbelievable. analogue or tape delays are the way to go for that floaty soundscape in ambient music.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by coughingcat
great thread, got in alittle late tho

anyway speaking of the beebaa, has anyone tried the roland beegee ? tested it .....the crunch and bite of this pedal is IT.

this is the kind of thread for me, as im doing ambient stuff as well....i noticed no one mentioned tape delays ?? my bandmate acquired a roland space echo, the delays are as smooth as butter....give it a little tweaking and stuff and the texture is unbelievable. analogue or tape delays are the way to go for that floaty soundscape in ambient music.

I am still writing the REAL delay portion.

It is huge.

[BmoreTele]

The Prophecysound Black Sheep Fuzz (BeeBaa cone) is going for about $250. Not cheap, buit not $450. And it's TB!

two other notes in the gain area -

Ampeg Scrambler - gain with an edge - gritty, angry, amp about to explode fun. Several clones are being made - Wells 8 Ball, Dubtronics Scrambler, Axis Skrambler and my favorite the Tinnitus by Cow4prez from HC http://cow4prez.00freehost.com/

Bruce Bennett makes the rudest pedal I have ever played - the Lowball. It is a distortion box with an octave down and a boost. The octave is part of the distortion and a portion of it is always active so you get all sorts of overtones and harmonics at all settings. Click on the octave (in full) and get a doubling of your guitar in bass guitar tones. The boost adds 15 dB's, so watch out. Run a bass through this thing and get angry industrial machine music.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by BmoreTele
The Prophecysound Black Sheep Fuzz (BeeBaa cone) is going for about $250. Not cheap, buit not $450. And it's TB!

two other notes in the gain area -

Ampeg Scrambler - gain with an edge - gritty, angry, amp about to explode fun. Several clones are being made - Wells 8 Ball, Dubtronics Scrambler, Axis Skrambler and my favorite the Tinnitus by Cow4prez from HC http://cow4prez.00freehost.com/

Bruce Bennett makes the rudest pedal I have ever played - the Lowball. It is a distortion box with an octave down and a boost. The octave is part of the distortion and a portion of it is always active so you get all sorts of overtones and harmonics at all settings. Click on the octave (in full) and get a doubling of your guitar in bass guitar tones. The boost adds 15 dB's, so watch out. Run a bass through this thing and get angry industrial machine music.

I got $275 as a price. the last BeeBaa I saw in canada(songbidmusic toronto) as $400 CDN. I was more of these guys would clip there clones.....I really want to hear them in action.

[MrZosoNP]

Originally posted by Springbokk
not a fan of the deluxe electric mistress? it's a weird flange, if you set the rate above one it doesnt give u the sweep effect when using heavy distortion, I use it more for cleans sounds, it really does pink floyd well, especially the song "breathe"

I've had much better luck with a small stone to get that chewy leslie sound on breath

[fiveways]

Originally posted by clifford
Hey Shane,

What do you think about Yamaha multis for reverbs?

A FX500/magic stomp is im my future according to the fortune cookie I just opened and the magic 8-ball.

[Alecto]

Who here has tried the Magic Stomp? Are they the ***** to end all *****s or are they just another over-hyped piece of gear? And what about the other Yamaha 'verbs (the SPX-90, SPX-900, etc.)?

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by Alecto
Who here has tried the Magic Stomp? Are they the ***** to end all *****s or are they just another over-hyped piece of gear? And what about the other Yamaha 'verbs (the SPX-90, SPX-900, etc.)?

end all? definitely not. good source of reverb? yes.

[Alecto]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
end all? definitely not. good source of reverb? yes.

Is it true that you can't get rid of the amp/cab sounds on the patches? How is it to program? I already get great distortion/chorus/phaser/delays, etc. out of my Korg AX1000G, so I just want a dedicated 'verb.

Any excuse to bump this thread! ;)

[pianoguitar]

Originally posted by clifford
And it self-oscillates! :D

What does a self-oscillating flange sound like?

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by pianoguitar
What does a self-oscillating flange sound like?

insane sirens. IMO, flanging oscillation is a lot more "extreme" than most delays oscillation. depending on the specific unit, flangers can be absolutely brutal.

[fiveways]

Delay:

This is the sections that could go on forever.

In my mind, there are 6 types of delays: Tape, Analog, Digital, Low-fi, Special Effect, And loopers(which is defidently based of delay IMO). These categorys will become more apperent of the course of this writing.

TAPE: The only category I don't own a member of. AMAZING SOUNDS. Try finding one cheap. There are both solid state and tube versiomn. My favourites are the Walktins Copycat(both tube and SS), Rolaand space echo's, Binson Echo-recs, and Echoplex's. There are other good ones, liek the Univox cart based ones....My knowledge of tape echo's is less then that of other delay types becaue there is limited info on them, and they are RARE RARE RARE in canada.

Analog: We all know analog. Most love analog. what more needs to be said at this point? There are literally a hundred good analog delays out there that you have or have not heard of....Like, beyond the Ibanez AD80 and AD9 and the DM series from boss, DMM's, thre are many good ones. DOD analog delays are awesome and really lowfi, arion ones are good "bang for your buck", the Ibanez CD-10 is a DM-3 clone, The Ibanez delay is a nice little one(black and green), MXR Time Machine, Guyatone had a bunch in the '80's. RAK and PSK are GREAT! These are korean Boss clones as Korea doesn't sell japanese made goods(at least they didn;t at that point, I really don't know if this has changed). Seriously, If you see a cheap analog delay, give it a try. they are all pretty close tone wise. Locobox has a Nice one if you can find it....

Oh, and there are piles of analog delay racks and half rack. I suggest hunting for them as they cost a pile less then the pedal versions.

Dgital:Pretty obvious. A normal clean digital delay, Like a DD-2. Basically, almost all boss dleays fit in here, the DL4, the akai headrush.....Many of the pedal in here will fit into the next 2 categories. There isn;t much to say about typical DDL's, they just do there job. Ibanez Delays are like this till you tweak them, same with DOD.

Low-Fi Delay: These are my favourites. Digital delays that are so lowfi they freak out. Self Oscillate, explode into feedback randomly, pitchshift all over the place, and have so much highend it hurts(only some). Basically, combined a delay and a 64k mp3 file/realplayer. You get the idea. The thing about these is that most can be tweaked to give more delay time and feedback. Many that start of gentle(PDS20/20) can be tweaked into complete maddness. Typical memebers of the family are Older Ibnanez delays(the "10" series ones are insane if tweaked)Boss PS-2, cheap digital delays from the 80's, Digitech PDS/RDS series delays, Early Ibanez racks(these thinks are totally ****ed. the harmonics delay witht he flanger has software issue and it feedsback endlessly, hell, overtweak all of them and they will do SOMETHIGN weird).

Maneco is a good example of a person who has elements of low-fi delay in him. Esp. the Nanolooper.

Special Effect delays: Pedal with weird delays sounds. The DL4 has some, DD-6, DD-20, Digidelay(reverse), Boss PS-3(Reverse pitchshift/delay), the echopro. This is the world of delays that I hope expands in the future. Weird delays are good. Delays that are weird and unique are even better.

Loopers:The last type of delay is looping, which has 2 forms. Setting a delays time and using a hold to "latch" the delay and hold it so it doesn;t fade out, and record/play where you hit record on a switch, and hit it, or a dedicated play button to stop the recording and start the playback. Both are amazing. And both are application based. Delay hold based looping is AMAZING for drones and support loops under a chord progression being looped by a record/play looper.

Hold Loopers:Maneco, Maneco, Maneco, Digitech PDS series, Digitech RDS Series.....Hell, almost any delay from the '80 that is a rack has a hold function on it. And so do half the pedals. Good cheap ones? DOD DFX94 is the king of cheap, 4 seconds of delay. The PDS's are nice and inexpensive. And most have adjustable trim to expand the delay time even further...

record/play: Digital Echoplex and the repeater are king. For more affordable solutions, there is the DL4, akai headrush, DD-20, RC-20. The boomerang is somewhere between these 2 categories.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by davil100
i get a lot of fine ambient stuff out of my current gear.
ive even used my board to make some f'd up vocals for a play-- rashaman.
i dunno, if ur doing a soundtrack to a play a lot of the stuff i use is useful and versatile enough... but then again, i scored music for an entire performance of "Great Expectations" on nothing but a black piece of junk Ibanez Aeg...
and that was pretty ambient haha

Defidently able to get good ambient sounds. You obey what is rule one for me....

"One delay is not enough."

Add a reverb and you would have a killer little rig for adding ambient sounds to almost any context.

[Surferosad]

Ok, if I was to get a PDS delay for hold looping, which one would you recommend (price is an issue)?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by davil100
what kind of reverb=good?

The Digitech is OK.

The Yamaha magic stomp is ****ing killer.

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by Surferosad
Ok, if I was to get a PDS delay for hold looping, which one would you recommend (price is an issue)?

the 20/20 is probably best... can get REALLY lofi when the trims are adjusted. personally, i use a 1002... but that doesn't give you much time to work with. it's great for basic drones, however.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Surferosad
Ok, if I was to get a PDS delay for hold looping, which one would you recommend (price is an issue)?

PDS20/20. You can get mroe time out of it then any of the others.

[Kid_BS]

I know FiveWays hates these b/c his crapped out on him, but I think the Holy Grail pedal is great. Very natural sounding reverbs for both spring and hall settings. Also has a cool reverb called Flerb that has a flange effect on the trailing reverb.

Originally posted by davil100
what kind of reverb=good?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Kid_BS
I know FiveWays hates these b/c his crapped out on him, but I think the Holy Grail pedal is great. Very natural sounding reverbs for both spring and hall settings. Also has a cool reverb called Flerb that has a flange effect on the trailing reverb.

I certaily don't hate it, I just don;t trust it, as it crapped out on me:)

Great sounding pedals though. But the magic stomp's spring is as good if not better.

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by Surferosad
I think I see in the stars a pds unit in the near future.... There's no such thing as too many delay pedals.

if you don't mind a rack unit, the RDS 7.6 is ****ing incredible. stupid amounts of time can be unlocked on that thing :D

[boy_makes_music]

Originally posted by fiveways
Analog: We all know analog. Most love analog. what more needs to be said at this point? There are literally a hundred good analog delays out there that you have or have not heard of....Like, beyond the Ibanez AD80 and AD9 and the DM series from boss, DMM's, thre are many good ones. DOD analog delays are awesome and really lowfi, arion ones are good "bang for your buck", the Ibanez CD-10 is a DM-3 clone, The Ibanez delay is a nice little one(black and green), MXR Time Machine, Guyatone had a bunch in the '80's. RAK and PSK are GREAT! These are korean Boss clones as Korea doesn't sell japanese made goods(at least they didn;t at that point, I really don't know if this has changed). Seriously, If you see a cheap analog delay, give it a try. they are all pretty close tone wise. Locobox has a Nice one if you can find it....


fiveways (or anyone else), are there many audible differences in analog delays? the arion ones are extremely cheap, possibly too cheap? i'd like to get a dm-2, but a lot to do with the fact that they are such a historical effect that i'd love to own, but a $200++? :(

[fiveways]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
fiveways (or anyone else), are there many audible differences in analog delays? the arion ones are extremely cheap, possibly too cheap? i'd like to get a dm-2, but a lot to do with the fact that they are such a historical effect that i'd love to own, but a $200++? :(

Not enough to jsutify a HUGE price difference, IMO.

The DM-2 is not all that historical. Nobody really famous used them to the degree they are infamous, they are not a revolutionary effect at all. they just sound good and are the most solidly built analog delays out there....

But other will do the job just as well.

[boy_makes_music]

Originally posted by fiveways
Not enough to jsutify a HUGE price difference, IMO.

The DM-2 is not all that historical. Nobody really famous used them to the degree they are infamous, they are not a revolutionary effect at all. they just sound good and are the most solidly built analog delays out there....

But other will do the job just as well.

there are a lot of good reviews about the pedal (Arion), some people think its is a dm-2 cuz apparently roland bought arion? not sure if this is correct. anyone here have the SAD-1? Seems very economical and worthwhile.

[clifford]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
there are a lot of good reviews about the pedal (Arion), some people think its is a dm-2 cuz apparently roland bought arion? not sure if this is correct. anyone here have the SAD-1? Seems very economical and worthwhile.

Ever tried a DE7? They're an analog emulator.. really warm delays. You might like it. Also.. PS-2s are going for around 50 bucks on ebay, it's a really cheap LoFi delay that's also.. not digital sounding. (I have both.. for the time being anyway) You dont have to shell out over a 100 bucks for tasty delays..

Other than people's (not mine) complaints about the DE7's switch sometimes, they're both built like tanks and are going really cheaply. Try and get a foot on them if you can.

[BmoreTele]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
there are a lot of good reviews about the pedal (Arion), some people think its is a dm-2 cuz apparently roland bought arion? not sure if this is correct. anyone here have the SAD-1? Seems very economical and worthwhile.

I have 3 SAD-1's. I love them. They have a better sound than my DeLayla, plus they're stereo! They all sound exactly the same. I have had six of them (sold three). They were consistently good.

The SAD-3 is another thing. Shorter delay time, different "feel" but for $20 - what the hell.

Don;t know anything about who owns them, It seems Arion is still making pedals - MF always has them (not the SAD-1 or SCH-1) and I think they're also available in the UK. But I can't find anybody lse who sells them.

I also have a SPH-1 and a SFL-1 (very good) and would buy the tuner if it ever went on sale.

[camerashake]

The SAD-1's are great - my only problem is the construction, but putting it in a loop will take core of that.

The SAD-3s don't get talked about very much - it's not as good as the SAD-1 or it's peers, but it is its own animal. Great deal when you can get them for $20, and it's a great in/starting a feedback loop.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by gary
Shane would it be possible for you to make a list of the Digitech PDS/RDS delays in order of least delay time -> most delay time? I'm guessing the RDS 3.6 gives the most time.

Edit: I'm listening to your PDS drone soundclip again, it sounds so lo-fi it makes me want to get one.

OK.

I don't know the max time on a PDS8000. Sorry. therea re also a pile of differnt ones....Nor do I have info on the 3.6....

In the bracets I have the tweaked time listed, "???" means please inform me.

RDS900(???)
RDS1900(???)
PDS1000(3-4sec)
PDS1002(3-4sec)
PDS2000(3-4 sec)
PDS20/20(18-20 sec)
RDS3.6(???, maybe the same as a RDS7.6)
RDS4000(5.2 sec)
RDS7.6(23-26 before it breaks up, can get over 40 if you want really low-fi)
RDS8000(???)
PDS8000(???)

THIS IS STOCK. If I missed any tell me.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by gary
Thanks for the list. :)

So the stock delay time is 7.6 seconds, but can be increased to over 20? Is it still usuable, because I remember someone saying that units like the PDS 20/20 become unusable at 20 seconds?

I wouldn't mind finding out a little more about the RDS7.6. I think you've convinced me to start my delay collection - I want analogue (DM-2 or cheap alternative), digital (a Digitech RDS/PDS), and a reverb of some kind.

My PDs is at MAX pretty much, it is FUGLY sounding. I love it. Guitargeek uses a few 7.6 at 23-26 seconds....He says more then that and they sound ugly.

I would do a search on the 7.6, you will get alot of old threads with him talking about tweaking it. I also suggest loopersdelight.com as they have a section on tweaking them.

though, the mulitplay is a great start.....or even a DOD DFX94 with 4 seconds of lowfi looping(you can get 6.5 out of it). Anything under 4 seconds, IMO is usless.

You could go cheap and get a FX90 and a DFX94.......

[boy_makes_music]

is the digitech rds series just a rack version of the pds, oh wait... i bet thats where they get the r and p from. :D

if its a rack i assume youd have to get some sort of switch to use it well as a looper? :confused:

[nobody]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
if its a rack i assume youd have to get some sort of switch to use it well as a looper? :confused:

Digitech made a footswitch for them that has three buttons -> Bypass, hold and trigger. But you can just use two momentary latching switchs for the bypass and hold, the trigger function is useless. I used to just use a bypass switch and would enable hold with the front panel button. For delay/hold loopers, once you have a delay line going that you want to loop you really don't need the footswitch.

[BmoreTele]

As to tweaking out the Digitech's for longer delay times - the sound will degrade to lower fidelity at the upper limit of the delay. It gets grainier and "gruntier" and eventually totally unrecognizable, but that can be very cool. The lower delay times sound the same as on un-tweaked units.

To clarify about the "stock" delay times on the PDS series

PDS1000 - 1 seconds of delay
PDS1002 - 2 seconds of delay
PDS2000 - 2 seconds of delay plus trigger/sampling
PDS8000 - 8 seconds of delay
PDS20/20 - 2 seconds of delay plus chorus and flange
PDS1550 - programmable distortion (2 presets)
PDS1650 - programmable distortion (20 patches)
PDS1700 - chorus and flange
PDS2700 - 1 second of delay plus chorus
PDS2715 - distortion and chorus
PDS2730 - 1 second of delay plus distortion
PDS3000 - 15 types of reverb plus infinite hold
PDS3500 - MIDI controller

The delay time on the rack units (RDS) is in the unit number. RDS1900 = 1900 ms, etc.

A sleeper is the RDS 3.6, some of these had a switch on the back that would double their delay to 7.2 seconds by cutting the sampling rate. Look for one on Ebay..

[duluxdog]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
fiveways (or anyone else), are there many audible differences in analog delays? the arion ones are extremely cheap, possibly too cheap? i'd like to get a dm-2, but a lot to do with the fact that they are such a historical effect that i'd love to own, but a $200++? :(

I love my SAD-3. It doesn't come near my DM-2 patch on my DL-4 for straight-ahead delay, but it kicks ass for noisemaking, theremin sounds and oscillation.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by matb
Suprised you didn't mention the DE-7 Fiveways.

I ment too....I forgot.:D

Now that you have I will say it is a great pedal.

[boy_makes_music]

Originally posted by matb
Suprised you didn't mention the DE-7 Fiveways.

ok ive heard a lot about this pedal lately on here. one question: is the echo actually analog, or just trying to sound like analog (like the DL-4)?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
ok ive heard a lot about this pedal lately on here. one question: is the echo actually analog, or just trying to sound like analog (like the DL-4)?

It is digital, it actually sounds LIKE analog. Ibanez learned how to do it with the echomachine and prefected it with that pedal. Have a listen to it a www.ibanez.com

The endless feedabck is a nice oscillation sound.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
i REALLY like the sound of the echo on that pedal, but i really hate the look of it, and the fact that i've seen an ad for in it a guitar world with the guys from korn holding one, bad connotation, but i like the echo mode. i think ill get the arion analog delay just to get a cheap one until i get can afford a dm-2, hopefully it will sound really nice like the 70's echo sounds in the ibanez clips.

also, i didnt know they re-issued the fl-9, id like to hear what that sounds like, ive heard lots about it.

I will say this, Korn can use there effects better then anyone else in nu-metal(deftones are to argued about). I would like the hear munky ****ing around at home with all of his stuff. Apperently he is a big brian eno fan.....(according to someone else on this board).

I'd get the Ibanez and **** the connections. You have a DD-2 and Tom Morello uses one, you have a CE-2 and half the '80's buttrockers used them, hell, you have a DL-4 and Traci Gunn's of LA Guns uses them now(along with everyone and there grandmothers). Grab a Ibanez and loss the asthetic idea.

[clifford]

Originally posted by boy_makes_music
i REALLY like the sound of the echo on that pedal, but i really hate the look of it, and the fact that i've seen an ad for in it a guitar world with the guys from korn holding one, bad connotation, but i like the echo mode. i think ill get the arion analog delay just to get a cheap one until i get can afford a dm-2, hopefully it will sound really nice like the 70's echo sounds in the ibanez clips.

also, i didnt know they re-issued the fl-9, id like to hear what that sounds like, ive heard lots about it.

Fiveways said better what I was going to. Mark from Dredg uses (or used, until they were stolen) 2 DE7s.. and he has great tone in his not-so-mainstream music.

About the FL9.. things would be cheaper just to buy the old one. The new one is like 130 bucks-ish (for now anyway).. and you can easily (well... you could anyway, Ive been out of the hunt for some time now. I only paid 45.. off ebay) find the 'true' 9 for under 100. It's a heckuvva pedal.. self oscillates if you tweak it a little. No extreme jet-plane sounds though, but it can go from subtle to quite corny 80's stuff... with great sounds in between.

Buy one, and if you dont like it, sell it again, there's a hefty demand for them. As long as being in Canada wont pose a problem.. which you would know much better than me. (all money I said was US.. sorry, didnt notice the location at first)

[Rock A My Soul]

Originally posted by fiveways
I'd get the Ibanez and **** the connections. You have a DD-2 and Tom Morello uses one, you have a CE-2 and half the '80's buttrockers used them, hell, you have a DL-4 and Traci Gunn's of LA Guns uses them now(along with everyone and there grandmothers). Grab a Ibanez and loss the asthetic idea.

Ahahahaha. Not to mention (just from doing a quick check on the site) that the guy from Godsmack uses his EQ and tremolo, and the guy from Disturbed has the Sonic Maximizer. If you care about that sort of thing, sharing gear with them would be far worse than using something Korn has (as they're derivitive crap without the weird noises that can redeem Korn for a few seconds here and there). The biggest thing I've learned from Shane in my time here is to drop any sort of misconceptions I've had about a pedal or brand sucking because a band I don't like uses it, and it's good advice. Get the DE-7 and don't look back.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by jacobhimself
question...

you said that the ps-5 is missing some options that make the ps-3 so good... what is it missing?

i ask because i want a pitch shifter and those two are on the top of my list...

A few synth sounds. I don;t know how much use you would have for them as they don't really "draw" people in.

[Alecto]

Fiveways (or anyone else in the know), is there a substantial difference between the Yamaha FX-500 and the FX-500B? I might be able to score the 500B for a good price (<$100), and I was wondering if it was worth it. Thanks in advance.

[nobody]

Originally posted by Alecto
Fiveways (or anyone else in the know), is there a substantial difference between the Yamaha FX-500 and the FX-500B? I might be able to score the 500B for a good price (<$100), and I was wondering if it was worth it. Thanks in advance.

Isn't the 500B the bass version of the FX-500?

[Alecto]

Originally posted by nobody
Isn't the 500B the bass version of the FX-500?

Is it? Good to know. Any significant differences between the two? I haven't found much on it. Does it have the same sounds?

[nobody]

Originally posted by Alecto
Is it? Good to know. Any significant differences between the two? I haven't found much on it. Does it have the same sounds?

I don't know. I've never seen or played with a 500B. I think it is probably designed for lower frequencies, so I don't know how it will sound.

[gary]

Originally posted by BmoreTele
As to tweaking out the Digitech's for longer delay times - the sound will degrade to lower fidelity at the upper limit of the delay. It gets grainier and "gruntier" and eventually totally unrecognizable, but that can be very cool. The lower delay times sound the same as on un-tweaked units.

To clarify about the "stock" delay times on the PDS series

PDS1000 - 1 seconds of delay
PDS1002 - 2 seconds of delay
PDS2000 - 2 seconds of delay plus trigger/sampling
PDS8000 - 8 seconds of delay
PDS20/20 - 2 seconds of delay plus chorus and flange
PDS1550 - programmable distortion (2 presets)
PDS1650 - programmable distortion (20 patches)
PDS1700 - chorus and flange
PDS2700 - 1 second of delay plus chorus
PDS2715 - distortion and chorus
PDS2730 - 1 second of delay plus distortion
PDS3000 - 15 types of reverb plus infinite hold
PDS3500 - MIDI controller

The delay time on the rack units (RDS) is in the unit number. RDS1900 = 1900 ms, etc.

A sleeper is the RDS 3.6, some of these had a switch on the back that would double their delay to 7.2 seconds by cutting the sampling rate. Look for one on Ebay..

Thanks for this list, very handy to know this sort of thing if I ever come across one. I have my heart set on an RDS 7.6 now, I want to get back into the ambient noise creation I used to do when I had a GT-3 over a year ago. It's such a release from playing rock and roll.

Shane here's a question for you: how did you manage to get a minor chord sound of 3 different notes or so in your PDS drone clip, is it all done by the PDS or were there more trick involved? It sounds awesome and I'd love to be able to pull that sort of thing off.

[Alecto]

I picked up the FX-500B and I'm working it into my rig. I get good distortions, delay, chorus, phaser, etc. from my Korg AX1000G so I'll be primarily using the FX-500B for its reverbs. Once you bypass the EQ it's almost identical to the FX-500. I love the Symphony and the Reverse and Voice Reverb patches, not so happy with the delay sounds (typical digidelay; my Korg sounds much better). Any other FX-500 users out there? Any problems I should keep an eye out for?

[nobody]

Originally posted by Alecto
Any other FX-500 users out there? Any problems I should keep an eye out for?

Watch out for the power button getting weird. I have to push it in and turn it for my unit to stay on. I just leave it on and use a power strip to power down my rack.

Also, the jacks are very fragile, be very gentle with them or else you'll be soldering them back to the PCB.

[nobody]

Originally posted by Alecto
Yeah, I noticed that straight off. :rolleyes: What's been your experience with the FX-500 so far? What have you liked/disliked?

There's not a whole lot I don't like besides the problems I've mentioned. I don't use the distortions or EQs so those don't bother me. Everything else is really nice. I mainly just use the reverbs and symphonic and touches of delay. It definitely sounds good.

[Mincer]

for my ambient excursions, I use a Roland GP-100 for long (20 sec) reverbs, an Oberheim Echoplex for looping (this thing is awesome) and a guitar synth...a Roland XV-5050.

[flipperbaby]

i also recomend (if not already recomended) an octave..the boss oc-2/3 are good but the DOD FX-35 Octoplus is a great toy to play around to add an octave to a lead rythem, but back off on the direct level so you can get original and lower octave tones in one.

[seangraham]

I have an alesis midiverb 4, and it's okay and a korg drv-1000 which is great....I'm definitely intrigued by the magic stomp, but do you think it's a worthwhile expenditure to get one given what I have?? They definitely look awesome though....and quite flexible. How does everyone who has one like it??

[intorvert]

What do you use the magicstomp for besides reverb? If I'm gonna shell, I want a lot worth shellin' for...

[clifford]

Originally posted by intorvert
What do you use the magicstomp for besides reverb? If I'm gonna shell, I want a lot worth shellin' for...

And how do the reverbs compare to a Yamaha multi rack? As good? I hope so, so I dont just have to have a random half-rack in my rig for reverse (and other) reverbs

[fiveways]

Originally posted by intorvert
What do you use the magicstomp for besides reverb? If I'm gonna shell, I want a lot worth shellin' for...

Reverb

Delay's you cannot get out of any other pedal beyonjd the UDstomp.

Good modulations.

more reverb.....

reverse reverb mixed with weird ass delays

[Uno Mutante]

fiveways-
what do you think of the EH double muff for overdrive/fuzz?

has anyone gotten their hands on the 16 second digital delay reissue?!!!! that's a lot of scratch for that sucker.

cheers,
m

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Uno Mutante
fiveways-
what do you think of the EH double muff for overdrive/fuzz?

has anyone gotten their hands on the 16 second digital delay reissue?!!!! that's a lot of scratch for that sucker.

cheers,
m

The double muff hasbn;t been aroudn here yet, maybe I will give it a spin.....

Then again, maybe not.....:)

And the 16 second delay looks super cool, but has alot of limitations and a really big price tag. I would still love to own one one day.................just to try it out fully.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by drl_06
Fiveways, could you explain more about what all the PS-3 can do? And is it the decendent of the RPS-10? Or how does that whole micro rack/pedal relationship work.

Yeah, it is the decentent of the RPS-10 and the PS-2. IT is higher bit rate then both of them by far.....

[d y l o n]

Originally posted by drl_06
Fiveways, could you explain more about what all the PS-3 can do? And is it the decendent of the RPS-10? Or how does that whole micro rack/pedal relationship work.

The PS-3 has more pristine delays than the PS-2.

It also has more modes.

(off the top of my head) it has 3 delay modes, then a detuning mode (chorusy sounds), some standard chromatic ps modes (which all track quite well), an 'arpeggiator' mode (inverse pitchshifting), and I believe one mode is ...

*thinks* octave up/down + a 5th? Man it's been a while :(

[fiveways]

Originally posted by d y l o n
The PS-3 has more pristine delays than the PS-2.

It also has more modes.

(off the top of my head) it has 3 delay modes, then a detuning mode (chorusy sounds), some standard chromatic ps modes (which all track quite well), an 'arpeggiator' mode (inverse pitchshifting), and I believe one mode is ...

*thinks* octave up/down + a 5th? Man it's been a while :(

1-3 delay
4 arpegiator type thing
5 Single shift I think
6 Single shift and something. I never use it.
7 Inverse pitchshift, liek mode 6 but backwards and not lame, only mode I use
8 Detuning
9 Dual shift, no idea what is special about it as the pedal doesn't say and I am too lazy to plug into it
10 dual shift
11 whammy

I think over the last 2 years I have only used mode 2 for a vocal delay(it sounds really nice in the "sweet spot" i found) and mode 7 (which is a major part of my guitar tones).

[Mincer]

I gotta add here that the Boss RV3 is a great reverb/delay...just set delay and reverb to max, no direct signal, and fade your notes in...not dull and lifeless at all.
Also, pitch transposing reverse reverbs...these rock. The GP-100 can delay a signal, and have 4 separate taps, panned separately, going either foward or backward on each successive repeat...doing this a lot will kill small animals, so beware.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Mincer
[B]I gotta add here that the Boss RV3 is a great reverb/delay...just set delay and reverb to max, no direct signal, and fade your notes in...not dull and lifeless at all.


I think it is, there are a pile of rack that do it way better in my mind. I just hate the sound of all roland reverbs beyond the SE-50.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Super_Person_X
Know anything about the Boss rv-1000? Anybody?

never seen one. There are a pile of Boss Racks like that that didn;t get wide release.

Here is one I never know existed until one showed up recently in Ottawa:

http://www.bollich-music-factory.de/bmf2003studio/Dsci0007.jpg

The RV-70. I am assuming it was mostly sold overseas as english sites with info on it are rare. basically it is a RV-3 with storage space.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by paulandpaul
I'm bumping this lovely thread because I have a question...

Has compression been discussed. I find it a helpful tool in ambient playing. When you have so many noise washes, it helps to keep things even and do help tame sudden spikes of sound.

There are of courde a million differences of opinion on compressors. I think for this type of music, where tone preservation is not essential, a boss or dod comp. would do the job just fine. My rig is set up for ambient playing as well as rock/post rock. I use a barber tone press.

Sorry if this has been discussed already. I didn't feel like going through the whole thread again.:)

I use a DOD Compressor. I really like it. They are far far better then any other none boutiqu/vintage compressors out there. They also kill attack really well IMO.

I also like it more then the vintage MXR I tried. I find they don't add enough sustain for me.

[orionlongwood]

Hey all, I'm looking for a stompbox (not rack gear) that has both a heavy reverb and delay. I know the Boss RV-3 can do that, but are there any other things out there? Something less cold?

(Cause I'm finally dropping my old Boss ME-30, which just sucked the tone out of my guitar.)

Thanks.

[Alecto]

If I didn't say it before, Fiveways, this is a great thread. I've learned a lot. Thanks.

Originally posted by sweeppicker

Get a Korg AX1500G. :) Just for the sake of it.

I have its older brother, the AX1000G. Thumbs up here as well. I'm not a big fan of the distortions, although the Top Boost, Rat and Big Muff models are all very usable. The big selling points for me are the phasers (Phase 90 and TC Electronic), the chorus (imitating the Boss CE-1), and the delays (the Echoplex model, with its syncopated delays, is incredible). You can also run two delays at the same time. Also noteworthy are the Univibe, and the Chorus/Flanger feature, which allows you to sweep between chorus and flange with the footpedal. Sounds better than the Boss GT-3 in my (and Guitar Player's) opinion. Not as cold.

BTW, how much would you expect to pay for an inexpensive, but reliable cello bow? I've been listening to far too much Sigur Ros and 'Led Zeppelin BBC Sessions'. :p

[eze]

wow!!!!

so much good shop talk here!!!

thought i would mention one or 2 ideas...

first the boss slow gear... this is cool for creating a wall of noise sound when you put it before a distortion unit, (i have a big muff and a heavy metal. i have an fm4 and it comes with what line 6 calls "slow filter")... the slow gear, or for me "slow filter" takes all the attack and deffinition out of your distortion. all that is left is a wall of sound. this is great with reverb and/ delay.
with clean amp sounds or if you place your slow gear after your distortion slow gear. also creates really cool analog synth and organ sounds when used with a harmonizor or pitch shifter.
or turn slow the attack all the way down and get long fade ins that can sound like whales of the coast of BC or what ever you want.
DOD also makes a pedal that does what the slow gear does.

another idea, using your guitar slide and holding it in your right hand(left handed people know what to do). you can do cords and notes with your left hand and then use the slide in the other hand, instead of a pick, for "scraping" and "pinging"(pinging is almost like tapping) your strings. iv seen a group that does this with screw drivers called "god speed you black emperor" i think "mogwai" does this also. so i tryed it with my metal guitar slide. you can start to find where the strigs notes are and "ping" and "scrape" in key as you normaly would with your slide in the other hand; same landmarks apply for notes. also for a more agressive less disciplined type of sound, the same technique works when you reclessly drag the slide up and down the guitar and bounce it up and down all over the strings. this is way cool for out of control playing.
play with distortions, compressors, reverb and delay etc to get diff noises.
cool stuff can come from this.

[eze]

in reply to the AX1000G

i tryed a lot of multi units and fell in love with the digitech gnx1.

i like the gnx1 because it doesnt have distortions and i dont want digital distortions from a multi unit.

so many options... great pitch and harmony sifting options. like digitech whammy but i can pick any notes i want and blend them as much or as little as i want. the expression pedal is fantastic and precise. i can add 2 diff harmonys any where i want and use the expresion pedal to move them along to different intervals... both up both down or criss-cross.
its also great for rotovibe, lesley and other mod sounds. add an octive or 2 for a really hammond n lesley like sound sonds. fade the octives in and it sounds like when riding the draw bars

it also does great delay and play back looping.

and amp simulations... i like to take a marshall 100 wat head and put it through a single 10" speaker for broken amp sounds

this is a great piece to play with

[eze]

i noticed talk of compressors

i have an 80's yamaha co 10m and its the best comp iv used.

used to have a boss cs-3 and tryed the dyna comp more then once and a comp by digitech. every comp except the co 10m changes the true voice of my guitars; especialy the dyna comp.

the co 10m was so clean and clear at first i didnt think it was doing anything antil i realized how long the sustain was ringing.
and it makes very little noise compaired to all the other comps iv used.

i love it

worth getting your hands on one if you can.

[sweeppicker]

Originally posted by Alecto
I have its older brother, the AX1000G. Thumbs up here as well. I'm not a big fan of the distortions, although the Top Boost, Rat and Big Muff models are all very usable. The big selling points for me are the phasers (Phase 90 and TC Electronic), the chorus (imitating the Boss CE-1), and the delays (the Echoplex model, with its syncopated delays, is incredible). You can also run two delays at the same time. Also noteworthy are the Univibe, and the Chorus/Flanger feature, which allows you to sweep between chorus and flange with the footpedal. Sounds better than the Boss GT-3 in my (and Guitar Player's) opinion. Not as cold.


I love the delays of my Korg. I hate the distortions, except the Top Boost, Rat models and especially the Seattle distortion. I even use it as my main high gain distortion. I have tried it on many amps and on many it sucked. But....in front of my London City or a '59 SLP, the Seattle model changes into brutal, thick, middy, massive tone. I really was amazed that a distortion from a digital multi really depends on amplifiying, when it comes to how it sounds. I guess the reason why it sounds great for me, is that I crank my poweramp to add the crunch.

As for the fx, the chorus is really nice IMO, but not as thick and warm as my CE-2. Phasers I hate. Actually, the only other things I use besides that distortion are the volume pedal, pitch shifting and several reverb and delay patches. Bummer is that you can't use any fx with the looper at the same time.

I also love the 16-second phrase trainer. :)

[lucky6sixty6]

i got an ehx polychorus a couple years ago. best pedal i've ever owned. it's such a sweet and shiny sound, and if you hook it up stereo it sounds even sweeter. i like the clone theory too, but more for it's odd vibrato sound.

[ck3]

Disclaimer: I was too lazy to read past page 5 or so ... so some of my "wisdom" may be hackneyed.

+1 for the Clone Theory being a great chorus.

I also have to agree that Alesis units can be noisy. My Ineko sometimes makes popping noises when the reverbs are active and has to be reset for them to cease.

Another delay that I did not see mentioned was the Arion SAD-3. While it is by no means a decent delay in a conventional sense, it can be used as a tone generating oscillator ... which can feed well into any rhythmic LFO-driven device, be it an Alesis Philtre, Digitech Digitech Turbo Flange, Digitech Synth Wah, etc.

Feedback loops can also be interesting ambience generators with delays and modulation effects (especially when fed onto cavernous reverb) ... but tend to work best with digital modulation pedals for some reason ... in contrast, delays can be either circuitry type (from what I understand).

Fuzzes that have provided me with decent ambient tones (primarily cascaded into each other and "sandwiching" my Clone Theory):

Holowon Static Egg
Zvex Vexter Fuzz Factory
Bozz FZ-2 Hyperfuzz
Ampeg Scrambler Clone
Effector 13 Noise Floor

Finally, I thought that I would add that the Vox Tonelab SE has many of the effects that can produce quality ambience ... though I still rely upon certain outboard effects for various textures.

[madman]

Filters - this is a weird little world. I used to do it by plugging my guitar into a mono/poly

Sorry, Fiveways, if you've already answered this, but I couldn't be arsed to look through 16 pages of (an albeit great) thread for it. I have a mono/poly too, and I'm curious as to how that sounds (I'm at boarding school at the mo, won't be able to try it out for a few weeks...) Also, how did you patch it in? I'm very curious...

[BULLintheLEATHR]

My input...

Big Muff USA or other fuzz
Some simple, cheap phaser
Feedback loop of some kind
Circuit bent Speak & Spell/Math/Read
Pickup disturbance objects (computer monitors, fans, vibrating objects)
Large, soft-brissled brush of somekind (for brushing stringed instrument)
Anything that beeps
Something with a photo-sensitive eye
Strobelight ^

[sweeppicker]

Originally posted by Lombax
For a good budget reverb to replace my digiverb, what's the best bet? se50 or zoom507? I've read the whole thread, but I still don't know exactly what they can both do and not do. does either one do modulated reverb? which can get bigger without getting noisy?

Maybe a EHX Holy Grail? Or do you want long swooshy verbs? I like the SE-50's reverbs sounds, a friend of mine has one. It's pretty good IMO. And it's cheap second hand, well, atleast it is here.

Originally posted by Lombax
oh, one more quick thing. does anyone know what you can use for an expression pedal on the line 6 dl4? I don't want to get the line 6 one because $50 us for a piece of plastic is absurd. I've heard that any passive volume would work. maybe a boss foot volume (fv something)?

The Roland EV-5 works on the DL4, but so does a cheapo Proel volume/expression pedal. Same plastic quality but way cheaper though. I use a Proel and it works flawlessly.

[vvvibrator]

Originally posted by Lombax


oh, one more quick thing. does anyone know what you can use for an expression pedal on the line 6 dl4? I don't want to get the line 6 one because $50 us for a piece of plastic is absurd. I've heard that any passive volume would work. maybe a boss foot volume (fv something)?


because i like the size, feel, rigidity, and indestructible nature of the EBjr volume pedal, i recently hooked mine up to the expression input of my g-major-- worked fine using a standard hosa TRS y adapter and two TS cables to the pedal in- and out-puts. i think i had to reverse them to work correctly.

[ACultHero]

I'm not gonna lie to you-- I bypassed roughly 5 pages of other people's input before I decided it was necessary to throw in my 2 cents...

The Boss RV-5 is incredible, if only for the Modulation setting! For about a year or so, I was convinced that I was the only person with this pedal who was strumming octaves high on the guitar neck (with a touch of delay added for good measure) to produce orchestra-sized, string-section-ish flourishes.

Then I heard the band Hope of the States, and after a lucky chance to play with them live onstage in Boston (well, I didn't get to play with them, exactly: I led the audience in clapping for the last two or three numbers after their drummer fled the sage, too ill to play), I realized that the band's original guitarist Jimi Lawrence used an RV-5 to get those huge washes of abstract sound that I'd been using it for in the interim...

In any case, I'd recommend buying this pedal to anyone in pursuit of even vaguely ambient tones, because the aforementioned Modulation setting is priceless.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by ACultHero
I'm not gonna lie to you-- I bypassed roughly 5 pages of other people's input before I decided it was necessary to throw in my 2 cents...

The Boss RV-5 is incredible, if only for the Modulation setting! For about a year or so, I was convinced that I was the only person with this pedal who was strumming octaves high on the guitar neck (with a touch of delay added for good measure) to produce orchestra-sized, string-section-ish flourishes.

Then I heard the band Hope of the States, and after a lucky chance to play with them live onstage in Boston (well, I didn't get to play with them, exactly: I led the audience in clapping for the last two or three numbers after their drummer fled the sage, too ill to play), I realized that the band's original guitarist Jimi Lawrence used an RV-5 to get those huge washes of abstract sound that I'd been using it for in the interim...

In any case, I'd recommend buying this pedal to anyone in pursuit of even vaguely ambient tones, because the aforementioned Modulation setting is priceless.

and the really good news is that behringers boss clones INCLUDE it.

So I will finally use it. I was unwilling to pay $260 cdn for that sounf. $40 cdn, I will pay:)

[fiveways]

Originally posted by red_riviera
Do these clones have the stereo inputs?

YES:)

[manhole]

Returning to gain pedals, what do you think of the Ibanez TS-7? How does it compare to the TS-5 for these sorts of applications?

[fiveways]

Originally posted by almostalright
Hey Fiveways, I'm wondering if this rig is going to be suitable for ambient ETC: Turbo Rat-Holy Grail-DE-7-CS2

I haven't bought any of them yet, but have the chance to for relatively good prices (DE-7 99 bucks, Turbo Rat 89.99, Holy Grail 115) Should I go for them?

Some. I think a second and more powerful delay with at least hold/looping abilities is also very helpful(dl4, dd-20, headrush, etc).

[ck3]

A Fender Blender (or at least my clone) sounds amazing when fed into a drony reverb/delay combo. The octave overtones progressively ebb and flow within the echoes and allow for an even more lush wash of ambience. :cool:

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Smittytime11
Hey fiveways in your opinion whats the best 100% wet reverb(that i could find without ebay) and also have you tried a EHX holy grail, if so what did you think?

I havent found a pedal or rack i a happy with for 100%, so i use plug ins.

the holy grail has a terrible volume drop at 100% wet.

[orbitofjane]

Hi,
First post. Is this a good place to post links for space sounds? If so check out,
www.audionightlight.com

This is a me and another person playing mainly live stuff.

[atmospherics]

Originally posted by orbitofjane
Hi,
First post. Is this a good place to post links for space sounds? If so check out,
www.audionightlight.com

This is a me and another person playing mainly live stuff.

Hey man, welcome to the fourm. I really dug the tunes.

Was it real drums or a drum machine? You had a really nice tone, I look forward to a rig thread from you:D

Also, what is Orbit of Jane from? It's sounds so firmiliar...

[orbitofjane]

it is real drums. orbit of jane was an old band i played in.

thanks for checking out the site.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Rush_Yes
Hi fiveways, I play a bit of ambient music, and generally just like pedals. Other than the stuff I have in my wants, what do you suggest I get? Also, what amps do you like that are in the 600-800 price range used? I want to get rid of my noisey ass 5150.

a good filter.

and a ampeg. any tube ampeg from the 70';s is a excelelnt ambient amp. and usually cheap.

[nobody]

Originally posted by Rush_Yes
But those don't have an effects loop though...

You don't really need one. Just run everything in front of the amp.

[Rush_Yes]

I use a Tri-AC and it sounds bad in front of the amp.

[atmospherics]

I played a ambient/electronic gig last night, and at the end, I had a light distortion, a slow delay, a slow phaser, and a medium reverse delay all going at once, I looped that, then kept the phaser and the delay on, and put a cell phone up against my pickup and had the voice of the message lady echoing along with it, and it was quite amazing. I also used the phone as a slide. Final verdict, a cell phone is my new favorite ambient toy. :D

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by jimihalen
There was some talk about the FL9 self-oscillating. True or false? I can't seem to get my original to oscillate...

I am fairly sure that you need to adjust the trims.

[squareking]

I cracked the case open once and couldn't find any trimpots...can you offer the whereabouts of the trims and/or post some pics?

[atmospherics]

Originally posted by jimihalen
What's your rig look like?

Well, I have some other junk lying around, but I didn't feel like bringing it all. last night it was:

My friends crappy strat copy (Mine isn't working) :(

Ebow/Slide/cell phone

Hendrix wah
Metal Zone
Rat
DD-3
Memory Man
PH-3
DOD FX-75B
Zoom 505
Boss GE-7
Dano Trem
Small Clone
DD-20
Ibanez DL-10

Peavey amp

Then I used a drum machine into a peavey bass amp. I was really happy with the show.

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by jimihalen
I cracked the case open once and couldn't find any trimpots...can you offer the whereabouts of the trims and/or post some pics?

I don't personall own one, so I can't be of much help. There was a ****LOAD of threads about it a good while back, so if you want to try searching, you might find something that way. Otherwise, I'd suggest you make a new post about it. There's gotta still be someone around who owns a FL-9 and who tweaked it.

[love_forever]

My favorite ambient pedals. Boss PN-2 Pan/Trem, Alesis Ampliton Pan Trem, Boss DD-20 (23 seconds of stereo delay, feedback knob at full acts as infinite hold with no regeneration on itself, and you can switch to the next mode in a different time and the last sound set keeps going and going to wherever you had the feedback knob when you left...), Boss PS-3 Pitch Shifter, Boss ODB-3 (the key here is the wet/dry knob...), Small Stone.

Oh and of course - eBOWS, cello bow, slides, Rosin (seriously put Rosin on anything!...just try it...), TV Remotes, Piezo on the headstock.

Reverb I'm lost on. I have a RV-5 right now only because of it having stereo ins/outs. I'm fairly happy with the modulate setting.

Regarding the PDS series. Does anyone know if you can extend the loop time on the PDS 2000's? I recently came across two of these. I would like to make them longer and lo-fi, or at least one of them.

[guitargeek]

You can push them to around 6-8 seconds with decent fidelity. Anything more and the delays sound robotic...

Originally posted by love_forever

Regarding the PDS series. Does anyone know if you can extend the loop time on the PDS 2000's? I recently came across two of these. I would like to make them longer and lo-fi, or at least one of them.

[Anaon]

Hello :)

Great thread :eek:

I was wondering, I'm interested in ambient stuffs and I would like to try this with my gear but could you give me some advices?

For now, I have just a Boss GT3 board, an Ernie Ball volume and a Big Muff. I was wondering because there's a lot of effects in the Boss GT3 but what would be great to add for space and atmospheric stuffs?

Thanks :)

[Aphoniser]

Originally posted by jimihalen
I cracked the case open once and couldn't find any trimpots...can you offer the whereabouts of the trims and/or post some pics?

when i cracked my FL-9 open, the trimpots were right next to the battery compartment (after you take off the main plate, you can see them). I got it oscillating madly, then found some interesting bending potential, then it stopped working. AUD$40 later, its all better, but i havent had the guts to try messing with its guts again.

[Alecto]

Originally posted by Anaon
I have worked a bit on my GT3 yesterday and there's a lot of effects. I wonder what I could add, maybe another delay? Or a more original phaser like the Small Stone?

Work with what you have. The GT-3 has a huge amount of programming power; there's a lot you can do with it. It also models Boss pedals, which are solid fx. The only thing you'd really need with it is some sort of spring or reverse reverb

[Alecto]

Originally posted by Anaon
You're right about using what I have, that's true.

Would you have some examples of spring and reverse reverb?

EH and Danelectro make some solid spring reverbs (look over this thread for more examples). Yamaha is Ground Zero for reverse 'verb (according to thread starter Fiveways), but others have jumped on the bandwagon. I think Digitech makes a usable reverb pedal, that has reverse. Anybody else have any suggestions?

[Alecto]

Originally posted by Anaon
Thanks for those suggestions... To be honest, I don't really see what is a "reverse" reverb :confused:

Makes it sound like the track is running backwards. Go listen to My Bloody Valentine or Led Zeppelin to hear reverse 'verb in action.

[atmospherics]

Originally posted by Anaon
Thanks :) I will win the newbie award but would you have some titles from Led Zep with reverse reverb, then I could listen to them :)

Thanks a lot :)

Listen to the guitar part to Soft as Snow (but Warm Inside) by My Bloody Valentine, it's pretty obvious there.

[BossMXRHarmonix]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
on flanging, another good candidate is the FL-9... standard "rock" flange, but works great for ambient stuff with some toying.

I swear by my old FL-9. So smooth!

[teleman]

I just did a big cleanup here by request. 21 pages are now 13. If a question was quoted in a later response, the original was deleted to save space. Also, congratulatory posts and others that didn't contribute tot he knowledge base were deleted.

let's all keep this free from clutter.

Thanks,
Ron


now some of you guys buy my stuff for all my hard work here:D

[fiveways]

Originally posted by teleman
I just did a big cleanup here by request. 21 pages are now 13. If a question was quoted in a later response, the original was deleted to save space. Also, congratulatory posts and others that didn't contribute tot he knowledge base were deleted.

let's all keep this free from clutter.

Thanks,
Ron


now some of you guys buy my stuff for all my hard work here:D

why should i buy any of them? you took out all my congrats posts on writing this ****. it isnt like it was easy work [writing it was, the literal years of my life i have put into the prusuit of this **** isnt].

i respect your hard work. i wish you would have respected mine by leaving in the posts where people thank me for doing this. there are piles of other places you could have trimmed fat from.

[teleman]

Originally posted by fiveways
why should i buy any of them? you took out all my congrats posts on writing this ****. it isnt like it was easy work [writing it was, the literal years of my life i have put into the prusuit of this **** isnt].

i respect your hard work. i wish you would have respected mine by leaving in the posts where people thank me for doing this. there are piles of other places you could have trimmed fat from.

I apologize wholeheartedly. It was a mistake to cut all of the thank you's from this.

[TheLostNorthern]

Thank you times a million, fiveways. This thread has been an incredible read. I haven't actually finished it yet.

I was gonna ask about the proel volume pedal that was discussed early in the thread. Is it discontinued? I can't find it anywhere.

If so, is there another one comparable in price/quality?

Once again, outstanding work on all your ambient effect guides.

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by TheLostNorthern
Thank you times a million, fiveways. This thread has been an incredible read. I haven't actually finished it yet.

I was gonna ask about the proel volume pedal that was discussed early in the thread. Is it discontinued? I can't find it anywhere.

If so, is there another one comparable in price/quality?

Once again, outstanding work on all your ambient effect guides.

They are the same as the Bespeco ones I am seeing all over here... but personally, I'd suggest waiting it out for an EBjr... I got mine for a good price and, if nothing else, the extra money spent on it can be justified by a tuner out & its potential to be used as a weapon.

[bluesy_marquee]

Originally posted by TheLostNorthern
I was gonna ask about the proel volume pedal that was discussed early in the thread. Is it discontinued? I can't find it anywhere. Proel is Italian and active, you can easily find their products in Europe. I remember Musik Produktiv for being a good website to purchase Proel products.

[Alecto]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
They are the same as the Bespeco ones I am seeing all over here... but personally, I'd suggest waiting it out for an EBjr... I got mine for a good price and, if nothing else, the extra money spent on it can be justified by a tuner out & its potential to be used as a weapon.

The only downside with the EB volume pedal is the string on the inside. They eventually break, and they're a royal pain to replace.

Boss also makes a rock solid volume pedal, that you can use to club people.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by Alecto
The only downside with the EB volume pedal is the string on the inside. They eventually break, and they're a royal pain to replace.

Boss also makes a rock solid volume pedal, that you can use to club people.

yeah that volume pedal wasnt around when this thread started and is a very new advancment in the world of boss.

i'm gonna grab one this week. my eb has a squeek i cannot seem to get rid of. it makes recording with a amp tits usless.

[guitarose]

Which pedal is this? They have a few volume pedals I think.

Also, fiveways have you tried the J&H? If so what do you think of the hyde side for ambient stuff? Just curious for your (much respected) opinion.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by guitarose
Which pedal is this? They have a few volume pedals I think.

Also, fiveways have you tried the J&H? If so what do you think of the hyde side for ambient stuff? Just curious for your (much respected) opinion.

the all metal eb looking boss volume. it came out earlier this year.

and i havent tried the j&h but i assume, from reading it is very rat like, it would be fine.

[acoustic_frippy]

Originally posted by fiveways
and i havent tried the j&h but i assume, from reading it is very rat like, it would be fine.

FWIW the Hyde side sounded like a Rat and the Jekyl side a Tubescreamer--to me, at least.

[guitarose]

Thanks guys. The boss volume looks interesting, but for now I'm content to use the volume knob - though no doubt that wil change in a bit:rolleyes:

Thanks for the rat/hyde information. I've never really played a rat, but it's nice to have a point of comparison.

The jekyll side IS a TS. Just with an optional bass boost. I generally use it to push the BMPi. The mid-hump makes me cry with the p90 in the bridge-it's so painful. The hyde on the other side...:)

Also, just want to share that I just got my1st analogue delay - Arion SAD1 off ebay - self-oscillation here I come :)

[chriscrob]

Boss FZ2-I disliked this pedal for anything but drum machines. just too much.
a note about the FZ2- you talked about two options. and you were about right in your assessment (although i kind of like the fuzz II option every once in awhile) but the third option "gain boost" is quite useful. I regularly use a bow on my guitar and this extra clean gain really brings bowing to life...

With the gain turned all the way up it does give quite a volume boost, which is sort of annoying, but expected. I also use it to push the clean channel on my hrdx into this fun sort of crunchy sound...

But plug this in into a distorted channel/distortion pedal and it will go crazy...

Not arguing for it as a great fuzz pedal but it has its uses...




(after an hour of reading to make sure i wasn't one of those annoying jump to the end and sound like an idiot people...now im the do my homework and sound like an idiot people :) )

[fiveways]

Originally posted by chriscrob
a note about the FZ2- you talked about two options. and you were about right in your assessment (although i kind of like the fuzz II option every once in awhile) but the third option "gain boost" is quite useful. I regularly use a bow on my guitar and this extra clean gain really brings bowing to life...

With the gain turned all the way up it does give quite a volume boost, which is sort of annoying, but expected. I also use it to push the clean channel on my hrdx into this fun sort of crunchy sound...

But plug this in into a distorted channel/distortion pedal and it will go crazy...

Not arguing for it as a great fuzz pedal but it has its uses...




(after an hour of reading to make sure i wasn't one of those annoying jump to the end and sound like an idiot people...now im the do my homework and sound like an idiot people :) )

yeah i totally forgot about the boost. mostly because there are so many good boosts on the market, though if i needed a boost and saw a $50 fz-2 i would grab it in a second.

[chriscrob]

just picked up the korg dvr-1000 on ebay. my first actual reverb unit. sort of excited.

[guitarose]

Quick question to fiveways, have you got any clips of your ambient playing. Im especially keen to hear linear stuff - as in without looping.

[fiveways]

Originally posted by guitarose
Quick question to fiveways, have you got any clips of your ambient playing. Im especially keen to hear linear stuff - as in without looping.

i never play without loops of some sort, even if it is just background noises. i hate the sound of guitars alone most of the time.

i'll post some **** later.

[guitarose]

Originally posted by fiveways
i never play without loops of some sort, even if it is just background noises. i hate the sound of guitars alone most of the time.

i'll post some **** later.

Cool. I'm basically interested in hearing as little layering as possible to see the kind of textures you can get in one go. But anything would be interesting.

[toma]

Originally posted by chriscrob
just picked up the korg dvr-1000 on ebay. my first actual reverb unit. sort of excited.

any good??

xx

[chriscrob]

I love it. 10 seconds of reverb is more than enough for what I do. I like the reverse on it. It doesn't seem to make any excess noise/hum or anything. It has two footswitch options, unfortunately I dont have cash OR footswitches right now so I haven't used that option. One of them is a cancel option and the other takes the pedal from its current time to the longest possible time for the current setting (thanks to fiveways for that info). Really cool option to have. I would definitely recommend it to anyone.

The only negative thing about it is that it is really, really big. I dont use any other rack style stuff so I have no case or anything. Its just this massive black box with a dd-20 laying on top if it...

[fiveways]

Originally posted by chriscrob
I love it. 10 seconds of reverb is more than enough for what I do. I like the reverse on it. It doesn't seem to make any excess noise/hum or anything. It has two footswitch options, unfortunately I dont have cash OR footswitches right now so I haven't used that option. One of them is a cancel option and the other takes the pedal from its current time to the longest possible time for the current setting (thanks to fiveways for that info). Really cool option to have. I would definitely recommend it to anyone.

The only negative thing about it is that it is really, really big. I dont use any other rack style stuff so I have no case or anything. Its just this massive black box with a dd-20 laying on top if it...

yep. to bad about the completely excessive size or else i would drag mine everywhere with me. its still my favourite digital reverb due to the fact taht it does really subtle long times better then anything else i own.

[toma]

how much was it?

ive decided that i dont like the microverb as it is too noisy, and all the reverbs appear to have some sort of gate on them, meaning that they dont trail away properly. the 'endless reverb' is good tho :)


i may try to find a korg dvr-1000 if theyre recomendable!

xx

[chriscrob]

It cost $11 dollars+29 shipping on Ebay.

29 dollars is outrageous shipping, but from what i've seen about 40 dollars shipping+price is about right. There are two on ebay now.

[toma]

wow!

that is cheep!!

$11


:eek:

[chriscrob]

yeah, it only closed that cheap cuz of the shipping though. Most of them ive seen on ebay are like 20+20 shipping.

[toma]

still, thats much better than the $300 im considering paying out for a holiest grail. surely at that price, it cant be that good?
tho if it still gets the thums up i may try to find one, at that price!!

xx

[Alecto]

Originally posted by Meteptapdesjo
My girlfriend's private videos :)


Not interested, you pathetic pile of hamster vomit. Now go away before I taunt you a second time.

[Alecto]

Originally posted by Anepe
My girlfriend's private videos :)


If she's your girlfriend, how much do you pay her to pretend to like you?

[gollywog]

reported

[Alecto]

Originally posted by fiveways
yeah that volume pedal wasnt around when this thread started and is a very new advancment in the world of boss.

i'm gonna grab one this week. my eb has a squeek i cannot seem to get rid of. it makes recording with a amp tits usless.

Did you ever get the new Boss volume pedal? And how is it? Inquiring minds want to know. ;)

[jimmy02]

Wow..first post here. I'm new to this whole ambient/spacey/post rock playing.
Great board and great thread!

Small stone seems great. which version should i get?

It'd be nice if some experienced ones here can start a thread exchanging some basic or special tricks they're doing, and maybe some videos or clips would be awesome.

[coldbuggin]

which is your favorite talk box shane?

[chriscrob]

Small stone seems great. which version should i get? If you don't want to be changing batteries all the time go with the american version (the silver one) It fills my needs. : )


I really like the small stone. The color switch lets me get that annoying phasery noise if I want it but I can turn it off and get the "wheeeaaauuuu" without muddying the rest of the noise up. I'm a fan.

[boyecho]

Originally posted by coldbuggin
which is your favorite talk box shane?

i heard he used three separate talk boxes on a new song he recorded.

of course, the only person on this board that would have three talk boxes would be him..

all that aside, i'd like to know the answer to this question as well.

conversely, do you put a delay pedal on the microphone for added space/ambience?

[matb]

Originally posted by chriscrob
If you don't want to be changing batteries all the time go with the american version (the silver one) It fills my needs. : )


I really like the small stone. The color switch lets me get that annoying phasery noise if I want it but I can turn it off and get the "wheeeaaauuuu" without muddying the rest of the noise up. I'm a fan.

I have an old, green Russian one that can run off of an adaptor.

[egebamyasi]

hi, very useful info here, thanks fiveways
what would you recommend for looping?

[guitarose]

Originally posted by egebamyasi
hi, very useful info here, thanks fiveways
what would you recommend for looping?

Use the search function...but as a simple looper he'd recommend the headrush

[SomniferousEyes]

Just wanted to thank fiveways and everyone here for taking the time to make an awesome thread.

[pollutino]

hi, i know this piece of equipment has been mentioned but can anyone give any opinions on the yamaha fx500? i'm considering getting one. I'm particularly interested in its reverb options. i want to avoid a cold/digital type reverb. any opinions? thanks

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally posted by fiveways
[B]Reverb:
Boss SE-50/70 - Good reverbs. They can overlaod the unit at higher mix levels turning it into a distorted mess. The noise is almost 0 off these units. I use a SE-50 now(used to be a quad GT)
Does anyone have a tip of which one of these two works best ?? The prices aren't that far removed from eachother.

Korg DRV-1000 - My next reverb unit. Low noise, huge reverb times, a good reverse and knob! Problems are they are hard to find.
I've got this one and I have to say that it's crap .. It's seem to cut up my reverb in the end like it feels like there's a noise-gate build in there which is kinda trivial since it's rather noisy.

Besides these two reverbs I've also got a RV-3 and a BOSS RV-1000 which is noisy as ****, it's a real shame since I think the reverbs in there are pretty nice, to my ears.

Does anyone have any tips on the noise etc. ??

I've cut down my signal path to:
Carl Martin: Red Repeat [Analoge Delay] -> BOSS RV-1000 or Korg DRV-1000 -> BOSS FV-500L [Volume Pedal] -> Phonic Firefly Soundcard -> Albeton Live 6.01 -> Guitar Rig 2 -> Vox Amp

[guitargeek]

The FX500 has a very rich verb tone. It's not harsh or cold unless you start tweaking the low pass filters.

The reverse reverb is really outstanding on it. It's not too far off from the SPX-90 in terms of sound.

Originally posted by pollutino
hi, i know this piece of equipment has been mentioned but can anyone give any opinions on the yamaha fx500? i'm considering getting one. I'm particularly interested in its reverb options. i want to avoid a cold/digital type reverb. any opinions? thanks

[guitargeek]

The Boss SE-70 has SO many more options and sounds than the SE-50. For starters, the SE-70 is much easier to program. It has a dial parameter knob instead of simple buttons. Try hitting a button 100 times to change a setting on the SE-50... it sucks!

The biggest sonic advantage of the SE-70 is an ALL analog distortion and overdrive section (OD, DS, HM and FZ type sounds). It's really top-notch in that area. I can't think of another box besides the Lexicon MPX-G2 that has better dirty sounds. The overdrive & distortions can be noisy but the noise gate is flawless. The gate actually works just as well as the NS-2, if not better.

Here's a few quick thoughts on the other FX

Compressor: I love this. Excellent for that tight focused sound. A touch of this and some OD is the perfect mellow crunch

Vibrato: Every bit as good as the VB-2 with more flexibilty

Slow Gear: Just like the overpriced StompBox. Nice violin tones...

Delays: Clean and precise with enough filter options to make the repeats sound hazy, loose and very analog. The 20-multitap delay is a lot of fun as well.

Synth: Excellent mono synth with all kinds of waveforms. Really good tracking for something at this budget. Much better than the VF-1 in my opinion

Reverbs: Crisp, cold and digital like the RV-3 and RV-5. They have their place in certain mixes or songs. Lots of programmability.

Phaser: Outstanding! Lots of stage modes. Everything from grainy to smooth.

Chorus: Standard Boss CH-style shorus. Generic but usable.

Originally posted by DemoColorScheme
BOSS SE-50 or BOSS SE-70? Does anyone have a tip of which one of these two works best ?? The prices aren't that far removed from eachother.

[DemoColorScheme]

Originally posted by guitargeek
Reverbs: Crisp, cold and digital like the RV-3 and RV-5. They have their place in certain mixes or songs. Lots of programmability.
That's a shame since I'm def. not looking for another cold reverb. I'll get this of my list then.
.. or you can tell me differently ?? Sound is subjective anyways though.

[squareking]

If I didn't have a paper to finish and a test to study for (not to mention 2 guitars to restring), I'd search, but ... what's the consensus on the DOD FX90? I just picked one up and it'll be my first analog delay. I've been using my DE7 for years and I love it.

[doingtheunstuck]

Good for the price.

[squareking]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
Good for the price.

You just saved me hours of searching. :D Can I has a little more info? Oscillation? General tone? How does it compare to similar analog delays? Is the bypass ok?

[doingtheunstuck]

Originally posted by jimihalen
You just saved me hours of searching. :D Can I has a little more info? Oscillation? General tone? How does it compare to similar analog delays? Is the bypass ok?

Dark and murky. Oscillates with trim pot adjustment, although some people have said that certain ones will not. Cannot remember what the visual difference was between the ones that can oscillate and the ones that cannot. Bypass is okay.

With trim adjustments, I managed to tweak it out to just about a second. It was the ugliest sound on earth. I liked it a lot, but having it that long ****ed with the response of the delay time knob.

[FlashMiles]

Originally posted by doingtheunstuck
Dark and murky. Oscillates with trim pot adjustment, although some people have said that certain ones will not. Cannot remember what the visual difference was between the ones that can oscillate and the ones that cannot. Bypass is okay.
...


It's the ones with the cute tape spools drawn on top that won't oscillate.

[chimneybike]

I posted this else where but..

How do you guys power your Rat? I want to buy one but it appears my current Boss power supply won't work with it because it's a different connection.

Do you guys just use the battery? The official power supply is impossible to get hold of on ebay and in Australia.

[Alecto]

Doesn't the One-Spot have an adaptor for the Rat pedal?

If not, use a 9 volt battery. Don't use an Alkaline battery, since they're really bad for fx. Your basic Super Heavy Duty should work fine. Hunt for them at dollar stores or more reputable sex shops.

[chimneybike]

What's the One-Stop?

I guess I could just use the battery but I'm just curious to see what other people do. I know that using the battery with Boss pedals is kind of silly as it is unreliable and drains quickly. However it does seem the Rat battery lasts 100-160 hours which is reasonable.

Still.. it would be a pain to be in the middle of a gig and it goes dead on you.

[boyecho]

Originally posted by chimneybike
What's the One-Stop?

I guess I could just use the battery but I'm just curious to see what other people do. I know that using the battery with Boss pedals is kind of silly as it is unreliable and drains quickly. However it does seem the Rat battery lasts 100-160 hours which is reasonable.

Still.. it would be a pain to be in the middle of a gig and it goes dead on you.

the Visual Sound One-Spot is a power adaptor that is sold with a daisy chain so you can power many effects off of one adaptor. it's effective. i use it in my rig for everything 9 volt.

does a rat battery really last that long? my guitarist replaces his more often than that.....

but for boss pedals, a visual sound 1-spot is great.

[chimneybike]

Looks good. I already have a Boss power supply however. I own only 3 Boss pedals at the moment but am looking at getting a few others like the Rat and Memory Man.

Now it's just a matter of find where I can get these One-Spot adapters in Australia. The ones off eBay are american and have the wrong power connection.


Edit - Instead of getting another new power supply.. is it possible for me to use my existing Boss PSA240P and get this:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-One-Spot-C35-3-5mm-1-8-Power-Supply-Adapter_W0QQitemZ290211148612QQihZ019QQcategoryZ10 1975QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid= p1638.m122

Looks like that will just convert one of my daisy chain ends so it will fit in the Rat? These cables are made for the One-Spot but it could work?

[guitargeek]

After spending 10 years away from the Alesis Reverb "Sound", I broke down and grabbed an Alesis Wedge off Ebay ($65USD). I've had every Alesis Rack unit there is (Midiverbs, Microverbs, Quads, etc) and I'm impressed already. It's the same Alesis blurred wash of verb I remember in a small friendly package.

I can only speak for the plate reverbs so far but it's a nice sonic mix of the original Quad and the Quad 2. It's far less complicated than the Quad 2 to program and much quieter than the noisy Original Quads. The sliders are a breeze to work with and the Quad 2-esque display is easy on the eyes.

It's found a place in my rack drawer within a FX loop of my ZOOM 9050 (which is in a loop of a GCX switcher). I'll use it for one dedicated patch of 100% wet plate reverb. Another washy reverb tone is what my current rig definitely needed. The Boss VF-1 and Boss SE-70's verbs are shrill and digital sounding, the Ensoniq DP-2 has a super warm and wooly thing going on, the Zoom 9050 is lush but lacks a really long trail and the Wedge is that over the top whooooshh of sound that goes on forever... mmmm!

[guitarose]

so..any chance of an update, taking in new gear..?


pretty please :)

[guitargeek]

all kinds of goodness awaits....

[guitarose]

Originally posted by guitargeek
all kinds of goodness awaits....

The King has spoken...



:cool:

[guitargeek]

So let it be said... so let it be delayed.

[DAVIDCOUPE]

Hey Shane, is the Alesis Microverb II any good for guitar use?

[Alecto]

Originally posted by DAVIDCOUPE
Hey Shane, is the Alesis Microverb II any good for guitar use?

I believe Shane doesn't like the Alesis products because they're too noisy.

[Wylde_Overdrive]

Originally posted by Alecto
I believe Shane doesn't like the Alesis products because they're too noisy.
shane loves noise; what are you talking about?

:rolleyes: