writing in odd time meters

[Welladjusted]

i've never done that until today. i came up with a soundgarden-esque riff (well, all my riffs are soundgardenesque no matter how hard i try to make them something else). just felt like sharing that

[skyneverclaimed]

I've written alot of songs where the time signuature changes, oddest signature i've acutally used is 7/8

[3v3+Z]

I can't INTENTIONALLY write in weird time signatures. I can't go "I think I'll write something in 13/8!" It has to just HAPPEN. I come up with a riff first, then I count it out later. I think that's the way to go. Just let things happen naturally. Then they won't sound forced.

I find it particularly interesting when things end up in a time signature that isn't even a whole number! (Like five-and-three-quarters-over-four or something!) Why limit yourself to whole numbers???

Why even limit yourself to time signatures? It's fun when you can't even find a consistent enough tempo to even count anything off.

I should really learn some theory so I can explain myself better.

[Anders]

man, I should learn how to figure out time signatures...

[skip tracer]

I used to be into "math rock" for some reason :rolleyes: so everything just had to be one measure of 5/4, then one 13/8, then one 7/8, then one 6/8...etc etc.

It was really funny when my old band (I was the drummer) would actually do some of my math-rockin' numbers, people would try to dance to it, but they couldn't, so they just looked like they were jerking around spastically. :p

[Welladjusted]

i think this riff is in 5/4

(tapos out riff 1,2,3,1,2) yep, 5/4. or 5/8, 10/8 etc... one of those...

[Welladjusted]

math rock, eh?
i'm into biology jazz

[540SLTD]

The challenge of improvising solos over odd time signatures is a lot of fun.

[Welladjusted]

i don't do complicated solos. so it should be easy. the question remains if the whole song is going to be 5/4 though

[TheGrinnan]

Just learn how to play the Mission: Impossible TV theme, and you have a song in 5/4!

[b0dah]

well adjusted.....as i'm sure you know, whatever "comes next", comes next. if you know what i mean


craziest odd meter thing i ever did was when my drummer pulled out this crazy beat. We didn't even count it out, i just slaved over a taping of it for a week, and finally came up with something. One day he took it to his drum teacher, who counted it out. Took him forever, and he finally figured it out.....4/4! The beat was whats called simulated odd meter . Basically, if only one measure of the beat is played, it sounds "off", but when even measures are played with the first ones (like 1with2, and 3with4) then its "head-bob-able" haha

it was a lesson in rhythm, thats for sure

[Welladjusted]

tool do a bunch of songs that sound like they're in weird meters but are really in 4/4 or 3/4 or something simple like that

[3v3+Z]

I love making 4/4 sound like the weirdest thing in the world. I also love taking things that some people would have me believe are "impossible" and making them sound completely normal.

[Lenin]

actually the mission impossible theme is in 10/8

[VillageIdiot]

Originally posted by 3v3+Z
I find it particularly interesting when things end up in a time signature that isn't even a whole number! (Like five-and-three-quarters-over-four or something!) Why limit yourself to whole numbers???

I know you were joking, but just to be an ass-

(5 and 3/4) / 4 would just be 23/16.

Damn, I needed a calculator for that one.


The coolest thing is having drums in one time sig, bass in another time sig and then guitars in ANOTHER time sig.

Tool did this is Lateralus... it actually works ok.

[Aquatrotsky]

I read somewhere that Lateralus is actually mostly in 3/4. The sond, that is. The part at the end is in 3/4. Like John Bonham's beat in Kashmir, Carey just plays a 3/4 beat and puts the accents and such so it sounds like 4/4. And everyone loves math rock. Gentle Giant did a lot of cool plyrhythmic time signature stuff, and Tarkus by ELP has cool stuff too. And Discipline by King Crimson is so awesome it hurts, man. The guitars on that track are so cool, and the time signatures are just so... complex!

[3v3+Z]

Originally posted by VillageIdiot
I know you were joking, but just to be an ass-

(5 and 3/4) / 4 would just be 23/16.

Damn, I needed a calculator for that one.

Actually, I wasn't joking at all. I don't know a damn thing about theory or notation or whatever this would fall under, so maybe it's technically incorrect to say 5.75/4, but it wouldn't be POSSIBLE to count out "23" as I'm playing it (you couldn't count that fast), so I just use the fraction. Of course, it would also be impossible to count a fraction, so I don't know. I just try to make the number that comes before the fraction reflect the way you would normally be counting it out if it were humanly possible to do so. For example, let's say you're playing something in 4/4. There's a normal pace you would count at. But what if you're playing something that's kind of BASED around 4/4, but with an extra quarter of a beat in there. 4.25/4. There would be no way to count out the 17/16 that I guess that would technically be. Am I making any sense at all, because I seriously don't know enough theory to know how to get my point across.


Originally posted by VillageIdiot
The coolest thing is having drums in one time sig, bass in another time sig and then guitars in ANOTHER time sig.

Tool did this is Lateralus... it actually works ok.

CROSS RHYTHMS!!!! Nice! Good times! Anyone ever hear "Jacob's Ladder" by Rush? Starts with the guitar, bass, & drums alternating (vacillating) between 5/4 and 6/4 (I think), then the keys and vocals come in in common time over the top of it!!! Vacillating cross rhythms, man!!!!! Dig it!

[VillageIdiot]

Heh... don't get me started on my secret love affair for time signatures.

It's why I love Tool, Dream Theater etc...

Dream Theater are totally crazy when it comes to time sigs.


It's real funny, cause me and my friend (Iain) are like that- so we always talk about stuff in reference to time sigs.

Eg-

"Hey Iain, have you heard 'Sir Yes Sir' by Tomahawk?"
"That's the one with the 5/8 verse, isn't it?"

Or when we are watching the live Dream Theater DVD I have, I look at him sometimes to try and catch him counting the beat in Dance of Eternity... :):)

Ahah... good times.

[540SLTD]

Originally posted by Aquatrotsky
Gentle Giant did a lot of cool plyrhythmic time signature stuff, and Tarkus by ELP has cool stuff too. And Discipline by King Crimson is so awesome it hurts, man. The guitars on that track are so cool, and the time signatures are just so... complex!
Yeah, I love that stuff. One of my favourites is Close to the Edge by Yes. At one point in that piece, the vocals and the guitar appear to be in 3/4 while the drums and bass are in 4/4, and yet it all fits together brilliantly without sacrificing any musicality. I was blown away the first time I heard it.

[3v3+Z]

Originally posted by VillageIdiot
Dream Theater are totally crazy when it comes to time sigs.

Ever try and count out "Wait for Sleep"? Good luck!

They really bug me though. I used to be into that kind of stuff, but it just seems kind of ... I don't know, antiseptic(?). Know what I mean? It's too slick. It doesn't seem to have any balls. That singer especially bothers me. He makes it sound like "christian rock", albeit very very complicated christian rock. I hope that doesn't sound bigoted. It's just that most (not all) of the christian rock that I've heard sounds really really awful to me.

I actually saw Dream Theater live back when I was into that sort of thing. It was at a really rowdy bar. Fights breaking out left and right ... then to the left again. Some dudes started STAGE DIVING! At a f___ing DREAM THEATER CONCERT!!! And this was an unusually high stage too! The singer goes to the mic between songs after someone stage dove (Is that the proper past tense?) and very timidly says, "Um, we're really not that kind of band..."

[VillageIdiot]

Have you heard all of their stuff? When did you stop listening?


Yeah, many people have issues with the singer, but I think hes great. :)

[stratocaster83]

pink floyd's "money" is in 7/4, and that beautiful ballad ("try not to get worried..." can't remember the name) from the jesus christ supertar album is in 5/4.

I love progressive rock (yes rule!), but those 2 examples shows the perfect use of odd time meters. sometimes they seems to me only "fascinating": I like to listen to them only bacuse of that.

when they're natural/i], it's another story: I was told that "money" and the ballad were in odd meters, otherwise I would have listen to them [i]only as beautiful songs...

[VillageIdiot]

Originally posted by stratocaster83
that beautiful ballad ("try not to get worried..." can't remember the name) from the jesus christ supertar album is in 5/4.

I think its called "Everythings Alright", but I know the one you mean.

I love that musical actually- some of the songs are really rocky. The production they did in New Zealand had a guy doing some ripping lead guitar on the tracks.

[idm13]

The most complicated time signature I wrote in was 4.5/4. There are two measures at 4.5/4 and then two measures at 4/4.

Just a note, you can't just do math. Time signatures are about where the accent is. 4/4 5/4 is not the same as 10/8. There are two accents there. Each accent starts the time signature over.

And as a side note, in a band environment, sometimes the 'accent" is being expressed by various instruments...and vocals...at various times.

Just my take on it.



~~>I play with a bunch of stuff that is always chaning<~~

[NoteBOOM]

I dont really care for this type of music, but Meshuggah Uses some really ****ed up stuff. Drums in 5/4, guitars in 13/8, that type of thing.

[pianoguitar]

I believe it was The Grateful Dead that assigned a different time signature to each band member and jammed until they all came back together. Maybe it was Phish. Either way it involved pot.

[Ice age coming]

all these 2\3 numbers make no sense to me... i know what 4\4 is but the rest is just numberslashnumber...

anybody want to give me a lesson?

[Rock A My Soul]

i always end up writing really catchy choruses that have two bars in one time signature and two in another and i'm really surprised when i try and figure it out and see two 5/8 bars followed by two 3/8 bars. hm.

the new foo fighters single "times like these" has parts that are in 7/8 (i believe. perhaps it was 7/4?)

[pianoguitar]

Originally posted by Ice age coming
all these 2\3 numbers make no sense to me... i know what 4\4 is but the rest is just numberslashnumber...

anybody want to give me a lesson?

Suppose the time signature was 3/4. That would mean that there were 3 beats in the measure and the quarter note gets the beat. I knew that the quarter note gets the beat (or is equal to one beat) because the four was on the bottom of the fraction. Now when I look at the music, I will know that all quarter notes count as one beat and there should be three of them in one measure.

Just a little more... If the time signature was 2/4 a measure of the song might read " quarter note, quarter note". If it was 4/4, there would be four quarter notes.

I tried to make it pretty simple. If anyone else has a better explanation, please give it. Of course, not all music will be made out of quarter notes, but all of the beats, when added up, should be the same as the top number.

[stratocaster83]

Originally posted by pianoguitar
Suppose the time signature was 3/4. That would mean that there were 3 beats in the measure and the quarter note gets the beat. I knew that the quarter note gets the beat (or is equal to one beat) because the four was on the bottom of the fraction. Now when I look at the music, I will know that all quarter notes count as one beat and there should be three of them in one measure.

walzer!!!

[jonjonbolt80]

Originally posted by Lenin
actually the mission impossible theme is in 10/8

YOU'D THINK IT'S 5/4. I LOVE 10/8