Just came out to my mom.

[Bunnicula]

Ha ha! No I'm not gay. I am an atheist. I had the most interesting conversation with my mother I've ever had in my life. For some reason it was a shock to her, but I don't know why seeing as how I haven't been in a church since I was 7.

I forget how the subject was brought up. I was probably ranting on about Bush or something and she flat out asked me if I was an atheist and I said "yeah." It's a great weight off my shoulders. I no longer have to feign interest when she talks about spirituality and such anymore.

We talked about god(s), fate, physics, evolution, faith, holidays, love, the brain, the human condition as my stepfather sat and stared never interjecting except when he told me to prove that I love my mother. It was great fun.

At the end of the conversation after she had torn through a bottle of wine she said she felt sorry for me and that she wouldn't let her grandchildren be atheists. She said she is an agnostic even though she said she believed in a higher power, so I had to define agnosticism for her, to which she said she didn't care about definitions. C'est la vie.

Also I'm debating with myself whether or not to become a vegetarian. That ought to piss her off as well. :D

Anyone else with a similar experience?

[michael-callari]

Wow. Umm, to piss her off, instead of being a vegetarian (meat kicks ass) Just stick with that gay thing.:D

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by michael-callari
Wow. Umm, to piss her off, instead of being a vegetarian (meat kicks ass) Just stick with that gay thing.:D

She would soooooo not like that. I would sooooo not be alive anymore. But it's a good idea for an April fools joke. :D

[haiku_suicide]

I'm not in your particular situation, but I have many friends who are. I guess I'm pretty lucky. My dad's an asshole a lot of the time, but my mom's really cool and doesn't care what I do as long as it's not drugs.

[i_finlayson37]

I'm planning on avoiding revealing my aetheism to my Mum for as long as possible. A lot of people around me know but she's a Session Clerk so I could do without the grief. I'll just stick to spitting barbs at Catholocism for now ;)

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by haiku_suicide
I'm not in your particular situation, but I have many friends who are. I guess I'm pretty lucky. My dad's an asshole a lot of the time, but my mom's really cool and doesn't care what I do as long as it's not drugs.

My mom's pretty much the same way, although she did call me a prude because I've never smoked weed and I don't drink. She confuses me a lot. :confused: :)

I'm not telling my dad because I think he is an atheist but I don't think he realizes he is. He hates going to chruch as much as I do. Come to think of it I've never seen him in a church and his uncle was a minister.

Originally posted by i_finlayson37
I'll just stick to spitting barbs at Catholocism for now ;)

I do that a lot too. It's just so easy. ;)

[Jelly]

I'm an atheist, and no-one really cares...it's not a big deal unless you come from a religious family.

Lucklily my parents don't care too much about what i believe in, as long as i do no permenant damage to myself or others.

[airfall]

i'm agnostic/athiest (i guess i could believe in a "god" if there was some proof...) and my mom didn't care too much except that she felt like kids raised in non-religious families missed a lot of the values taught in churches/temples/wherever you worship. i kind of agree. there are lots of phrases and things that come from religion, and i think it helps to understand the stories.

[BluesPlaya]

Anyone else with a similar experience?

Well, it sounds kinda like when my sister told my dad she liked the RedSox (that didn't last long):D

[duluxdog]

I was confirmed when I was 11 as a Roman Catholic since I went to a religious school. Once I became 'more aware' (around 15-16) I felt sort of cajoled into the whole thing since I don't think 11 is a good age to comit yourself to something as defining as that. I'm an athiest though not of the rabid, ludicrously angry type. Though I am strongly in favour of secularism (American politicians scare the crap out of me with their 'God Bless America' kind of thing). None of my friends are religious and my parents only go to church at Christmas time.

[Saeptus]

I've never flat out told my parents that I'm an agnostic, but they certainly know that I am through conversation. Sometimes I lean towards being an atheist because the world is so chaotic. I'm spiritual about music, art, film, and anything that I see as beautiful, and its hard for me to accept that human beings create such beauty and love for nothing. That there is no chance I will meet those I love and admire again. To me, that is a shame.

I care too much about humanity as a whole. I love intensely on an individual level and on a very macro level. I love the artistic things I do, and the people I know, and people across the world I've never even met. And when I look out on the world and see war, disease, poverty, death, etc, I start to resent God, or the Gods, or the idea of a god. When you think like this, life starts to become hopeless and you clearly see the attraction of religion.

I don't know, in the last five months I've gone through a lot of hard times. Granted, I'm not some kid in Iraq getting burnt to within an inch of my life by a car bomb, but I've been in the depths of existential depression and its not something I would wish on anyone: friend or foe. All these life decisions were bearing down on me: do I stay in Milwaukee for a year and work on my band? do I go to Paris for graduate film school? do I go to San Francisco for graduate film school? what if I can't line up gigs for my solo project in Paris? what if I fail even though I know I'm talented and capable? These questions quickly led to existential questions like, "why should I even try at all? If there is no God then my art is pointless. It may matter to me while I'm alive, but when I'm dead and I'm consumed by nothingness, then it will not have mattered and I won't know the difference, and life will have been pointless, so why should I buy into this cycle of aspiring to achieve? And if there is nothing and every thing means nothing, why do I love so intensely, and how do I reconcile these uncertainties with my duties as a son, a friend, a brother, a cousin, etc?"

I found that I became very angry at God or the idea of God (and I'm using the Christian God here), and I started cursing the day I was born. I resented this mysterious being for making me so passionate and I longed for pure ignorance, so I could go about my day with the illusion that work will fulfill me until I'm rewarded with the afterlife.

Then a friend of mine died in a car accident. And, let me tell you something, you come face to face with the abyss when something like this happens and you can't do a damned thing about it. You face the abyss and you see that there's nothing there but your own reflection. You see that you're staring back at yourself from within the abyss.

There's no guarantee that you'll see anyone or anything that you loved when you die. I felt separated from the idea of God--totally alienated. Then I cursed him/her. I longed for the comfort of childhood's blind faith but couldn't find it--still haven't.

So, I guess I just wanted to stress that going down the lonely road of Atheism or Agnosticism is not a fun experience. It is eye opening in many ways and liberating when you can free yourself from the shackles of relgious doctrine, but all your logic cannot stop you from coming face to face with the abyss and being frightened by what you see.

Its not as romantic as it seems.

[Nameless]

To be honest, it isn't an issue in my family. My mum believes in God etc but never goes to church and my dad's a lapsed Catholic, in fact he couldn't get any more lapsed if he tried. If I were to say to my mum that I was an atheist she'd probably say "oh, right" and ask me what I waned for tea.It's pretty much like that in my area too, church numbers are dwindling apparently and youngsters who are "into church" kind of get looked at weirdly and if i'm honest, do tend to be a bit weird.

[Blue Collar Man]

Yeah its bit of an issue in my family. My whole family is Jehovah's Witnesses, and when you leave that ****, its like you never had family to begin with.

Sometimes a feel like i was orphaned at 17. But, then i do enjoy a lot more personal freedoms, and have a lot less stress in general now. So i dont regret it.

[Petary791]

You know, this just happened to me. My mom is being a total bitch about it too.

Yay God...?

[devankdevank]

Religion and theology has always interested me, yet I've never had a religion my entire life. Hell, my parents took my to Hindu worships more than to a church when I was younger. I'm pretty happy that my parents opted to not give me a religion because it allows me to be more open minded towards everything else. If anything I'm probably athiest but I really don't care enough to just label myself.

[bucky]

I was raised Christian, but I've pretty much given up on it. I'm really not looking forward to telling my family, because my Mom's side of the family are devout Christians. Hell, she spent the first 18 years of her life living in Africa because her parents were missionaries there.

[yaledelay]

A good freind of mine just came out to everyone that he is having a sex change, and told his parents and his girlfreinds parents, so far everyone is taking it well... except his real dad, who it must be real hard for...

[Bunnicula]

Wow. It looks like there are a lot of people in the same boat as me. It's good to know that I'm not crazy. I went to college expecting a lot of people like me but nearly everyone I talk to there still goes to church, even after their saturday nights of getting wasted.

On another note, ironicly christmas is still my favorite time of the year.

[Doctor J]

I've never been religious. My parents aren't religious, and I never have been. Atheism/Agnosticism has always appeared to me as the default position in much the same way that religious people feel that people are spiritual by default.

[butcherbird]

Bunnicula - I commend your courage to do that. As an atheist too, I've struggled to find a way to have that same conversation with my dad, mostly out of fear of hurting his feelings or something. I usually just stear clear or change the subject when he asks if I ever think about going to church. Maybe he'll understand, but I've always avoided the topic. Personally, I think people should be allowed to worship and believe (or not believe) whatever they like as long as they're not hurting or infringing on others. Unfortunately, most religious folks aren't so willing to be open-minded. They want to convert you to the "right way", meaning their way, of course. Sucks big time.

[Nameless]

I couldn't even go to church on a sunday even if i wanted too as I've had to work on a sunday ever since I was 17 (I'm getting on for 23 now). I think that adds to the indifference to religion within my age group - everyone HAS to work weekends or they don't get a job so even if they are religious its a choice job/church.

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by butcherbird
Bunnicula - I commend your courage to do that. As an atheist too, I've struggled to find a way to have that same conversation with my dad, mostly out of fear of hurting his feelings or something. I usually just stear clear or change the subject when he asks if I ever think about going to church. Maybe he'll understand, but I've always avoided the topic. Personally, I think people should be allowed to worship and believe (or not believe) whatever they like as long as they're not hurting or infringing on others. Unfortunately, most religious folks aren't so willing to be open-minded. They want to convert you to the "right way", meaning their way, of course. Sucks big time.

Thanks! Good luck to you with your dad. :)

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by yaledelay
A good freind of mine just came out to everyone that he is having a sex change, and told his parents and his girlfreinds parents, so far everyone is taking it well... except his real dad, who it must be real hard for...
I'm sorry to hear that..
Does that mean him and his girlfriend are breaking up?






I've been raised a Christian and believe in it somewhat....I don't understand, though, how my religion would be the best one when if I wanna be like Jesus why wouldn't I be Jewish? I have lots of questions about all that stuff....



Saeptus - I really liked your post..

[skip tracer]

Originally posted by Saeptus
I've never flat out told my parents that I'm an agnostic, but they certainly know that I am through conversation. Sometimes I lean towards being an atheist because the world is so chaotic. I'm spiritual about music, art, film, and anything that I see as beautiful, and its hard for me to accept that human beings create such beauty and love for nothing. That there is no chance I will meet those I love and admire again. To me, that is a shame.

As artists, I think we have more of a tendency towards spiritual thinking because we deal in creation. What is it that gods do? Create (the benelovent ones, at least). If there is no god, that doesn't mean it's all for naught. Art still touches people in a way that can only be described in religious terms. But keep in mind that those terms are metaphors for the ineffible.


I care too much about humanity as a whole. I love intensely on an individual level and on a very macro level. I love the artistic things I do, and the people I know, and people across the world I've never even met. And when I look out on the world and see war, disease, poverty, death, etc, I start to resent God, or the Gods, or the idea of a god. When you think like this, life starts to become hopeless and you clearly see the attraction of religion.

I don't know, in the last five months I've gone through a lot of hard times. Granted, I'm not some kid in Iraq getting burnt to within an inch of my life by a car bomb, but I've been in the depths of existential depression and its not something I would wish on anyone: friend or foe. All these life decisions were bearing down on me: do I stay in Milwaukee for a year and work on my band? do I go to Paris for graduate film school? do I go to San Francisco for graduate film school? what if I can't line up gigs for my solo project in Paris? what if I fail even though I know I'm talented and capable? These questions quickly led to existential questions like, "why should I even try at all? If there is no God then my art is pointless. It may matter to me while I'm alive, but when I'm dead and I'm consumed by nothingness, then it will not have mattered and I won't know the difference, and life will have been pointless, so why should I buy into this cycle of aspiring to achieve? And if there is nothing and every thing means nothing, why do I love so intensely, and how do I reconcile these uncertainties with my duties as a son, a friend, a brother, a cousin, etc?" [/B]

Just because there might not be a god does not make life meaningless. You just have to find your own meaning, and I think that's a lot more exciting than the meaning of life being simply "to serve God." Why is your art pointless if there is no god? One could say the point of art is to put one in contact with the trancendent, but if that is not true, that doesn't reduce the impact of great art.


I found that I became very angry at God or the idea of God (and I'm using the Christian God here), and I started cursing the day I was born. I resented this mysterious being for making me so passionate and I longed for pure ignorance, so I could go about my day with the illusion that work will fulfill me until I'm rewarded with the afterlife.

Who knows, perhaps there is an afterlife. But I'm not betting on it. The thing that frustrates me the most about my lack of belief is that I'm honestly searching. I haven't given up and said, "there is no god!" I would really love for there to be one. And there are people who live out their lives complacent in their religious belief, who don't really think about these things. Yet they enjoy that comfort. I'm someone who is honestly searching for something transcendent and sublime, but I'll probably never find it. Or maybe, like Chretien de Troyes' Perceval, I have, but I was completely oblivious and it's passed me by forever.


There's no guarantee that you'll see anyone or anything that you loved when you die. I felt separated from the idea of God--totally alienated. Then I cursed him/her. I longed for the comfort of childhood's blind faith but couldn't find it--still haven't.

Then what's the point in worrying about it?

"For life is quite absurd
And death's the final word.
You must always face the curtain with a bow.
Forget about your sin.
Give the audience a grin.
Enjoy it. It's your last chance, anyhow."

There's a Monty Python quote for every situation. If there's nothing after death but nothingness, you won't be around to think, "gee, being dead really sucks." Because that will be it. I just hope that if there is a governing intelligence in the universe, as well as an afterlife, we will be rewarded for being so inquisitive about It's true nature.

[Saeptus]

Originally posted by skip tracer
As artists, I think we have more of a tendency towards spiritual thinking because we deal in creation. What is it that gods do? Create (the benelovent ones, at least). If there is no god, that doesn't mean it's all for naught. Art still touches people in a way that can only be described in religious terms. But keep in mind that those terms are metaphors for the ineffible.

I agree. In fact, I've read some articles by psychologists claiming that artistic individuals ponder existential questions on a much higher level and with more frequency than the average person. Young males are particularly more prone to such thoughts, and consequently, have a much higher predeliction towards existential depression. (I'll try to find the articles I read on this matter, so I can present some evidence.) Again, this is not glamorous--in some ways its a curse. Most artists are idealists and they see that the world is falling far short of the "ideal" world, and it wears on them existentially.

Art does have the unique quality of being transcendant. I would hope that upon death we are able to take the essence of our art with us. It would be a shame if, as many people (particularly Christians) have been taught to believe, that earthly concerns do not matter in heaven. Why would we be denied the things that we love and make us happy?

Just because there might not be a god does not make life meaningless. You just have to find your own meaning, and I think that's a lot more exciting than the meaning of life being simply "to serve God." Why is your art pointless if there is no god? One could say the point of art is to put one in contact with the trancendent, but if that is not true, that doesn't reduce the impact of great art.

Yes, you do have to find your own meaning. What I'm saying, though, is that it is hard to find ultimate truth if you have massive doubts about the existence of a god. Many people, particularly religious people, claim to know the ultimate truth. But the key to being human is realizing that you don't have the ultimate truth. I don't think a creator God would need us to "serve" him/her; he or she is infinite and has no needs, and thus our bizarre rituals here on earth are quite meaningless to him/her. I suppose a creator god would perhaps want a bit of thanks for the gift of life, that's all. But, obviously, I can't really speculate.

And the absence of a god certainly does not reduce the impact of great art; but, it would be a shame if those who create could not take their art with them in some sort of way. An existence that equalizes every body does not appeal to me. To eliminate needs is one thing, but to eliminate creation is quite another and if heaven effectively ends the creative drive because everything is perfection, then I'm not exactly thrilled about that.

Who knows, perhaps there is an afterlife. But I'm not betting on it. The thing that frustrates me the most about my lack of belief is that I'm honestly searching. I haven't given up and said, "there is no god!" I would really love for there to be one.

I think everybody is searching to a certain extent. I know I am. Right now I have a huge quarrel with God (if he/she does exist). I have complaints about the way things are and why we have to know extreme pain. This quarrel I have with whatever force is behind life has made it quite difficult to submit to something that will alleviate my fears.

[intorvert]

I prefer Hollowe'en over Christmas, so deep down I'm way more pagan than Christian.

Just kidding. I hate the idea of religion and the reality. Spiritualism is great, but the second you start placing structures and rules on it, and start forcing it upon others, bad things happen.

I wasn't kidding about liking Hollowe'en more, by the way.

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by intorvert
I prefer Hollowe'en over Christmas, so deep down I'm way more pagan than Christian.

Just kidding. I hate the idea of religion and the reality. Spiritualism is great, but the second you start placing structures and rules on it, and start forcing it upon others, bad things happen.

I wasn't kidding about liking Hollowe'en more, by the way.

Halloween is a close second for me. When you think about it Christmas is mostly pagan. My family never makes reference to him during it, and have no christian ornaments.

What make christmas good for me is the colors, smells, music, ornaments, family, sleding, food, and of course the presents. I even like the corny cartoons and movies they show every year. :D

[DavyBoy721]

What I don't get is that like all you atheists, not to pick at you or anything, but why the hell do you celebrate Christmas as a holiday when you don't even believe in it. I know this might sound stupid, but that's like me celebrating Hannakuh or Quanza or whatever. It's not my holiday, I don't believe in it, so I don't celebrate it and I don't think I'm supposed to. I know people just see Christmas as a time to get presents, but that's gay... It's not about that.. I'm not saying you guys can't but I just don't think it's right...but hey, if your parents are giving you presents and you don't even have to care or know about why then all I have to say is SCORE..

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by DavyBoy721
What I don't get is that like all you atheists, not to pick at you or anything, but why the hell do you celebrate Christmas as a holiday when you don't even believe in it. I know this might sound stupid, but that's like my celebrating Hannakuh or Quanza or whatever. It's not my holiday, I don't believe in it, so I don't celebrate it and I don't think I'm supposed to. I know people just see Christmas as a time to get presents, but that's gay... It's not about that.. I'm not saying you guys can't but I just don't think it's right...and hey, if your parents are giving you presents and you don't even have to care or know about why then all I have to say is SCORE..

Do you celebrate halloween? Did you ever get dressed up as a kid? Are you a pagan?

Christmas is just a fun tradition that we were brought up with. Why should I need to believe in god to eat cookies or give people presents? It's fun and thats all there is to it.

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by Bunnicula
Halloween is a close second for me. When you think about it Christmas is mostly pagan. My family never makes reference to him during it, and have no christian ornaments.

What make christmas good for me is the colors, smells, music, ornaments, family, sleding, food, and of course the presents. I even like the corny cartoons and movies they show every year. :D

Please tell me you guys aren't some of those ignorant people who think pagan means "Satan-worshipping"




One who follows a religion of European, North African, West Asian or Pre-Columbian American origin and who is not Christian, Muslim nor Jewish, or who does not worship the God of Abraham. Such usage, while traditional in the above three religions, may be considered derogatory. (Religions of Southern and Eastern Asian origin (eg. Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Shinto) are not generally considered to be Pagan).


There's a definition for anyone who doesn't know


Do you celebrate halloween? Did you ever get dressed up as a kid? Are you a pagan?

Christmas is just a fun tradition that we were brought up with. Why should I need to believe in god to eat cookies or give people presents? It's fun and thats all there is to it.

Halloween was a Catholic holy day at one point. But that's just been turned into candy and fun and games. Christmas is a lot of the same now, but it also means a lot more to a lot of people. It's talked about in the second of the best-selling book of all time (Jesus's birth in the New Testament of the Bible).

But so anyway, don't get me wrong, I'm no super strong Christian or anything and don't like going to church any more than anyone else but I understand the meanings of these holidays and such.. Easter is another one that has gone to crap.. It used to be about Jesus being risen from the dead but now it's about some bunny and getting candy...

I'm not complaining about any of these...I love getting presents (especially guitar-related) but the world's ignorant and misunderstands all this stuff now..

[Bunnicula]

In response in DavyBoys post. No, I do not think pagan=satan. I think pagan =polytheism or in the case of christmas easter, and halloween Nordic polytheism.

Halloween has always been about paganism. November 1st is the pagan new year I beleive so halloween was new years eve. Pagans thought new years eve was when spirits were at thier strongest so they would disguise themselves as spirits(costumes) to hide from them and would leave food at their doorsteps to please them, so when you dressed up as a ghost or something on beggars night weren't being a hypocrite celebrating a pagan holiday that you don't really beleive in?

Now christmas. Christmas trees were a pagan sign of long life or something close to that. Decorating a tree is pagan. Missletoe is pagan. Wreaths are pagan. Exchanging gifts is pagan. I think even fruit cake is pagan though I'm not 100% on it. Now whats Christian about all those things? Why christians decorate their homes in pagan symbols?

Easter: Celebrated in spring. Not because thats when christ died, but because it was a pagan celebration of new life. The easter bunny is in no way christian. Rabbits were associated with fertility. Same with eggs. A symbol of fertility. Also with eggs, there would be a feast so people would go out and gather eggs, hence the easter egg hunt and put them in baskets. They would gather all kinds of eggs, not just from chickens which is why we color them now.

Christians do all of these things not becuase they are christian, but because they are fun traditions that have been passed on since pagan times.

Jehovas witnesses don't follow these traditions becuase they know they aren't christian. Same with birthdays. They don't recognize birthday celebrations because they are derived from paganism.


Out of breath...

[Saeptus]

Christmas is actually an ancient Roman holiday. Early Catholic authorities positioned Jesus' birthdate over a traditional Roman holiday known as Saturnalia so as to not upset the masses who were transitioning from one state religion to another.

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by Bunnicula
In response in DavyBoys post. No, I do not think pagan=satan. I think pagan =polytheism or in the case of christmas easter, and halloween Nordic polytheism.

Halloween has always been about paganism. November 1st is the pagan new year I beleive so halloween was new years eve. Pagans thought new years eve was when spirits were at thier strongest so they would disguise themselves as spirits(costumes) to hide from them and would leave food at their doorsteps to please them, so when you dressed up as a ghost or something on beggars night weren't being a hypocrite celebrating a pagan holiday that you don't really beleive in?

Now christmas. Christmas trees were a pagan sign of long life or something close to that. Decorating a tree is pagan. Missletoe is pagan. Wreaths are pagan. Exchanging gifts is pagan. I think even fruit cake is pagan though I'm not 100% on it. Now whats Christian about all those things? Why christians decorate their homes in pagan symbols?

Easter: Celebrated in spring. Not because thats when christ died, but because it was a pagan celebration of new life. The easter bunny is in no way christian. Rabbits were associated with fertility. Same with eggs. A symbol of fertility. Also with eggs, there would be a feast so people would go out and gather eggs, hence the easter egg hunt and put them in baskets. They would gather all kinds of eggs, not just from chickens which is why we color them now.

Christians do all of these things not becuase they are christian, but because they are fun traditions that have been passed on since pagan times.

Jehovas witnesses don't follow these traditions becuase they know they aren't christian. Same with birthdays. They don't recognize birthday celebrations because they are derived from paganism.


Out of breath...


I understand and agree with you....but you seem way more educated about this than many people I know I have talked to before...I agree with you on all that stuff



Friends?:cool:

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by DavyBoy721
I understand and agree with you....but you seem way more educated about this than many people I know I have talked to before...I agree with you on all that stuff



Friends?:cool:

Of course! ;)

[Petary791]

I'm happy this is an intelligent thread. Nobody's like, "You're a pagan, die and burn in hell DIE!!" and nobody's being an elitest Christian.

I just wanted to say that i'm proud of you all. I've been on the uber christian side and on the pagan side, and i'm still finding my place.

[skip tracer]

Originally posted by DavyBoy721
What I don't get is that like all you atheists, not to pick at you or anything, but why the hell do you celebrate Christmas as a holiday when you don't even believe in it. I know this might sound stupid, but that's like me celebrating Hannakuh or Quanza or whatever. It's not my holiday, I don't believe in it, so I don't celebrate it and I don't think I'm supposed to. I know people just see Christmas as a time to get presents, but that's gay... It's not about that.. I'm not saying you guys can't but I just don't think it's right...but hey, if your parents are giving you presents and you don't even have to care or know about why then all I have to say is SCORE..

Well...Christmas was originally the Roman festival of Saturnalia. Much like in the Roman Empire, the holiday is more of a civic celebration than a religious one. Christmas and Easter were pagan before they were christian, and today they are seen as mostly civic. Didn't Paul say not to decorate trees like the heathen? The Puritans didn't celebrate Christmas because they considered it a pagan holiday.

As for Easter, you can view the ressurection as part of the cycle of the seasons. The dead winter comes back to life in the spring, hence the egg symbol.

Edit: should have read page 3 before responding. Seems that all these points have been addressed.

Originally posted by Petary791
I'm happy this is an intelligent thread. Nobody's like, "You're a pagan, die and burn in hell DIE!!" and nobody's being an elitest Christian.

I just wanted to say that i'm proud of you all. I've been on the uber christian side and on the pagan side, and i'm still finding my place.

We're nice here on guitargeek.

[16stone]

Wow. This post was really educational. I didnt know the details of those holidays at all. I knew the main ideas but the stuff about the easter egg hunt and paganism was really interesting. Thanks Bunnicula

[Blue Collar Man]

Originally posted by Bunnicula
Jehovas witnesses don't follow these traditions becuase they know they aren't christian. Same with birthdays. They don't recognize birthday celebrations because they are derived from paganism.


Out of breath...

He is absolutely correct. I used to be in that church, and although they do think that they are christians, they dont celebrate any holidays really.

Every holiday that i can think off has roots in old pagan religions. When the missionaries came, they simply used the existing holiday dates and general festivities, and twisted the supposed reasons for them, to make it easy to convert the pagans.

Also, christmas in paticular is influenced heavily by corporate agents. Santa claus' coat is red and white, right? Know where those colors came from?

A coke bottle. I early coke ads, they pictured a red and white labelled bottle, along with a color-coordinated jolly old nick. It has stuck ever since.

You can find some interesting behind the scenes info about holidays if you look a little.

[cubby]

Originally posted by 16stone
Wow. This post was really educational. I didnt know the details of those holidays at all. I knew the main ideas but the stuff about the easter egg hunt and paganism was really interesting. Thanks Bunnicula

For some reason that's the funniest quote I've seen in ages.


This thread makes baby jesus cry...:(


;)

[skip tracer]

Originally posted by cubby
For some reason that's the funniest quote I've seen in ages.


This thread makes baby jesus cry...:(


;)

http://1cornerstone.5u.com/images/jesus_crying.jpg

[i_finlayson37]

Originally posted by skip tracer
http://1cornerstone.5u.com/images/jesus_crying.jpg

Wow... I'm lost for words :eek:

[airship71]

You won't think that quote is so funny when you're BURNING IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!

I keed, I keed! :D

I'm pretty much an agnostic too; I hope there is a God but I seriously doubt it most of the time. And yeah, I already knew all that stuff about the holidays. Back when I worked for my hometown newspaper, I wrote a column about Easter's pagan roots. Bet I pissed off a lot of the small-town home folks with that one.

[skip tracer]

Originally posted by airship71
You won't think that quote is so funny when you're BURNING IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!

I keed, I keed! :D

I'm pretty much an agnostic too; I hope there is a God but I seriously doubt it most of the time. And yeah, I already knew all that stuff about the holidays. Back when I worked for my hometown newspaper, I wrote a column about Easter's pagan roots. Bet I pissed off a lot of the small-town home folks with that one.

Damn, I bet...South Carolina is the only state us folks in North Carolina can laugh at! ;)

[airship71]

Originally posted by skip tracer
Damn, I bet...South Carolina is the only state us folks in North Carolina can laugh at! ;)

Aw hell, we can always pick on West Virginia! Speaking of North Carolinians making fun of South Carolina, are you familiar with the Archers of Loaf song "South Carolina?" There ya go.

[Dillholio]

Originally posted by Bunnicula
Also I'm debating with myself whether or not to become a vegetarian. That ought to piss her off as well. :D

Anyone else with a similar experience?

I dabbled in vegatarianism once. It lasted about for about 7 hours until I had a hankering for a chicken fried steak. :D

I had a similar experience, coming out as athiest, but I was 12 at the time. My Mom had a similar reaction. I don't regret my choices or decisions, but I regret my going about it the way I did. In the end, I got a lot of sh!t for it, & I reacted like most adolesents do, by being reactionary about it, a lot of needless battles were fought just to express my viewpoint & personal freedom. Needless to say it led to a lot of ostricism, but it led me to where I am today.

In hindsight, if I would kept my mouth shut, & hung out with the whole "Wednesday Night Baptist," crowd in high school, I probably would have seen more partying & ***** & had a much better time. Oh well, that's the hypocrisy of religion, now isn't it?

However, it seems like you are of college age, so that's probably not a problem. I would not advise going for the things just to piss off your mom, because life's too short & I'm sure she's having enough of a time with it. But you know your situation best.

Good luck.

[Blue Collar Man]

I wonder if our kids will come out to us(overwhelmingly atheist and/or agnostic), with their hidden christianity? Wouldnt that be an interesting 180.

Or do you think that christianity will die out with our parents generation? Anyone?

[i_finlayson37]

Completely off topic but everytime I see this post I think it says Just came out of my mom :rolleyes:

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by Blue Collar Man
He is absolutely correct. I used to be in that church, and although they do think that they are christians, they dont celebrate any holidays really.


That might have been where Jacko went wrong first....although I'm not very knowledgable about Jehovah's Witnesses so don't take that offensive..more of a joke..




i_finlayson37 - I thought that at first too...I was thinking it had something to do with a baby lol





Why is Jesus always some white guy in every picture people drew.....Think about where he was from and that type of thing:confused:

[Bunnicula]

Originally posted by Dillholio
Good luck.

Thanks man.

Originally posted by Blue Collar Man
Or do you think that christianity will die out with our parents generation? Anyone?

I've thought about this a few times. I don't think it will. As long as there has been language there has been religion, possibly even before. As long as there has been religion there has been non-believers. They were just too scared to be killed to tell anyone. But that's only speculation. There are five churches in a one mile radius of my house and all are fill to the brim every sunday. It appears to be going strong. The last number I saw was that 10% of the country is atheist/agnostic.

[grayson]

I think this is an excellent thread. Really honest and open.

Some of the posts are remarkably perceptive. Saeptus's first post had me quite choked up. I could really feel the emptiness he described.

I am a 'for-real' Christian. I don't just go to church out of family tradition. I do believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be and that the Bible is God's word. I don't believe it just 'cos my mommy told me to. I have spent time investigating the claims of the Bible and have found them to be consistent and reasonable. I don't think one has to abandon rational thought to be a believer. And contrary to the prevailing stereotype of religious persons, I don't hate anyone who disagrees.

But my wish for those of you who are atheist or agnostic is that one day you will experience the freedom and relief of trusting in God. I think it is a harsh burden to live in a world without God. The ups and downs of life must seem horribly arbitrary, and the fear of death, overwhelming.

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by grayson
I think this is an excellent thread. Really honest and open.

Some of the posts are remarkably perceptive. Saeptus's first post had me quite choked up. I could really feel the emptiness he described.

I am a 'for-real' Christian. I don't just go to church out of family tradition. I do believe that Jesus is who He claimed to be and that the Bible is God's word. I don't believe it just 'cos my mommy told me to. I have spent time investigating the claims of the Bible and have found them to be consistent and reasonable. I don't think one has to abandon rational thought to be a believer. And contrary to the prevailing stereotype of religious persons, I don't hate anyone who disagrees.

But my wish for those of you who are atheist or agnostic is that one day you will experience the freedom and relief of trusting in God. I think it is a harsh burden to live in a world without God. The ups and downs of life must seem horribly arbitrary, and the fear of death, overwhelming.

Have you read "The Message" by Eugene Patterson I think the guys name is? It's the bible in contemporary language and I would really like to read it sometime.

[grayson]

Originally posted by DavyBoy721
Have you read "The Message" by Eugene Patterson I think the guys name is? It's the bible in contemporary language and I would really like to read it sometime.

Yeah, I'm familiar with it, at least the New Testament part. It seems like a great way to get to the heart of the story without wading through old-world language.

[Nameless]

Grayson - I think its great that you have a strong sense of belief, I just wonder what you mean when you say "I believe the bible is God's word". Do you mean you believe everything in it as, forgive me, gospel?

I would be interested to hear your views on Evolution, homosexuals etc, as I have come across christians who do actually believe that Genesis is a factually correct account of the dawning of creation. Is this what your comments refer to?

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by Nameless
Grayson - I think its great that you have a strong sense of belief, I just wonder what you mean when you say "I believe the bible is God's word". Do you mean you believe everything in it as, forgive me, gospel?

I would be interested to hear your views on Evolution, homosexuals etc, as I have come across christians who do actually believe that Genesis is a factually correct account of the dawning of creation. Is this what your comments refer to?


I think one of those days in the 6 days it took to create everything could have amount to years of time in our time. I believe in evolution of some form. More of like natural selection though. For all we know Adam and Eve were hunch-backed and ape-like. But I hate people who think Charles Darwin said "People came from monkeys." You dumb bastards need to shut up (not saying that anyone on hear has said that). All he described was the theory of natural selection which is that those most suited to their environment will survive. For example, there are giraffe's living in places with high branches on trees. The ones with the longer necks are more suited to their environment because they can reach the food better. Therefore, the ones with the shorter necks will die and the long-necked ones will reproduce and eventually all the giraffes there will be long-necks.

[grayson]

Originally posted by Nameless
Grayson - I think its great that you have a strong sense of belief, I just wonder what you mean when you say "I believe the bible is God's word". Do you mean you believe everything in it as, forgive me, gospel?

I would be interested to hear your views on Evolution, homosexuals etc, as I have come across christians who do actually believe that Genesis is a factually correct account of the dawning of creation. Is this what your comments refer to?

Fair question.

I think it boils down to one issue: Do I believe that God can and has performed miracles?

I do believe it. God, by almost anyone's definition, is not bound by the laws of physics. Therefore (if he exists) it should be within his abilities to perform the miracles described in the Bible. This would include creating a man from dust and raising the dead.

So yes, I believe the Bible is a historically reliable text. This is bourne out by archaeological discoveries as well.

I do have problems with evolution. Darwinism supposes that, given enough time (millions of years), a useful random mutation will occur in one individual animal (after millions of useLESS mutations in other individuals) which will significantly improve that individual's survival chances. Not only that, it assumes that this individual will be able to pass-down the mutation to it's offspring, who will be so successful at surviving that other animals of the same kind will be unable to compete and die off. Then it assumes that a further random mutation (millions of years later) in another individual will somehow 'build' on the first mutation in a positive way, creating another level of complexity, and the process gets repeated.

I think there are problems with this on many levels. Firstly, it assumes that the species will be around long enough to generate all those useless mutations, which means it's surviving pretty well anyway. Second, it assumes that there is such a thing as a really useful one-time mutation. Thirdly, it assumes that the mutation will be hereditary. Fourth, it doesn't explain why today's animals aren't full of meaningless appendages from all the useless-but-harmless mutations that supposedly took place. Fifth, it doesn't explain how systems which are only useful in their 'fully-evolved' state could have evolved...That's just off the top of my head. I think it takes just as much 'faith' to believe in Evolution as it does to believe in an intelligent agent doing the creating.

There is a lot more to be said on these issues and there are people in the Scientific community (not all of whom are religious) who can refute evolution far more eloquently than myself. I had a Physics professor at University who was agnostic, and he could tear darwinism apart like nobody's business.

[amoebas]

surprised nobody hasn't posted yet. and i didnt see drl.



i remember a Korn thread....

[Blue Collar Man]

Originally posted by DavyBoy721
That might have been where Jacko went wrong first....although I'm not very knowledgable about Jehovah's Witnesses so don't take that offensive..more of a joke..

Non taken. Jacko and Jehovah's Witnesses are both jokes waiting to happen.:rolleyes:

[james teh OG]

i have religion, but none that i'm sure you would be familiar with. in this day and age the Egyptian gods and goddesses are mournfully underrated. it may sound strange, i know, but let me just say that Sekhmet gave me more to believe in than Jesus and Muhhamed ever did.

my family is Irish Catholic, but neither of my parents believe in organized religion so other than my baptism they never pushed it. sadly though, i live in a rich WASP neighborhood, so i get more crap for not blindly following Dubya than blindly following Jesus.

[james teh OG]

Originally posted by Blue Collar Man
Non taken. Jacko and Jehovah's Witnesses are both jokes waiting to happen.:rolleyes:

hey what about Mormons? remember, they're only one letter away from MORONS

[james teh OG]

Originally posted by grayson
Fair question.

I think it boils down to one issue: Do I believe that God can and has performed miracles?

I do believe it. God, by almost anyone's definition, is not bound by the laws of physics. Therefore (if he exists) it should be within his abilities to perform the miracles described in the Bible. This would include creating a man from dust and raising the dead.

So yes, I believe the Bible is a historically reliable text. This is bourne out by archaeological discoveries as well.

I do have problems with evolution. Darwinism supposes that, given enough time (millions of years), a useful random mutation will occur in one individual animal (after millions of useLESS mutations in other individuals) which will significantly improve that individual's survival chances. Not only that, it assumes that this individual will be able to pass-down the mutation to it's offspring, who will be so successful at surviving that other animals of the same kind will be unable to compete and die off. Then it assumes that a further random mutation (millions of years later) in another individual will somehow 'build' on the first mutation in a positive way, creating another level of complexity, and the process gets repeated.

I think there are problems with this on many levels. Firstly, it assumes that the species will be around long enough to generate all those useless mutations, which means it's surviving pretty well anyway. Second, it assumes that there is such a thing as a really useful one-time mutation. Thirdly, it assumes that the mutation will be hereditary. Fourth, it doesn't explain why today's animals aren't full of meaningless appendages from all the useless-but-harmless mutations that supposedly took place. Fifth, it doesn't explain how systems which are only useful in their 'fully-evolved' state could have evolved...That's just off the top of my head. I think it takes just as much 'faith' to believe in Evolution as it does to believe in an intelligent agent doing the creating.

There is a lot more to be said on these issues and there are people in the Scientific community (not all of whom are religious) who can refute evolution far more eloquently than myself. I had a Physics professor at University who was agnostic, and he could tear darwinism apart like nobody's business.

...i think that may be the first educated and thoughtful arguement against evolution i've ever heard from a religious person. you presented your arguement, supported it throughly, and left little to be called upon or debated. fulls marks my friend. you have your faith, but you have not abandoned your sense of sound logic nor your sense of thorough debate.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by grayson
Fair question.

I think it boils down to one issue: Do I believe that God can and has performed miracles?

I do believe it. God, by almost anyone's definition, is not bound by the laws of physics. Therefore (if he exists) it should be within his abilities to perform the miracles described in the Bible. This would include creating a man from dust and raising the dead.

So yes, I believe the Bible is a historically reliable text. This is bourne out by archaeological discoveries as well.

I do have problems with evolution. Darwinism supposes that, given enough time (millions of years), a useful random mutation will occur in one individual animal (after millions of useLESS mutations in other individuals) which will significantly improve that individual's survival chances. Not only that, it assumes that this individual will be able to pass-down the mutation to it's offspring, who will be so successful at surviving that other animals of the same kind will be unable to compete and die off. Then it assumes that a further random mutation (millions of years later) in another individual will somehow 'build' on the first mutation in a positive way, creating another level of complexity, and the process gets repeated.

I think there are problems with this on many levels. Firstly, it assumes that the species will be around long enough to generate all those useless mutations, which means it's surviving pretty well anyway. Second, it assumes that there is such a thing as a really useful one-time mutation. Thirdly, it assumes that the mutation will be hereditary. Fourth, it doesn't explain why today's animals aren't full of meaningless appendages from all the useless-but-harmless mutations that supposedly took place. Fifth, it doesn't explain how systems which are only useful in their 'fully-evolved' state could have evolved...That's just off the top of my head. I think it takes just as much 'faith' to believe in Evolution as it does to believe in an intelligent agent doing the creating.

There is a lot more to be said on these issues and there are people in the Scientific community (not all of whom are religious) who can refute evolution far more eloquently than myself. I had a Physics professor at University who was agnostic, and he could tear darwinism apart like nobody's business.

Interesting remarks mate. It's obviously a subject the religious and scientific communities may never agree on, and whilst I see where your coming from I don't totally agree with you. That's not the point of this thread though, so I won't open up that Pabdora's box (especially as I've got to go to work now with a steaming hangover form last night :( ).

[grayson]

Thanks for listening guys.

I don't expect to change anybody's mind with just one conversation, but it's great just to be able to toss ideas around in a civilized forum like this.

[Nameless]

Originally posted by grayson
Thanks for listening guys.

I don't expect to change anybody's mind with just one conversation, but it's great just to be able to toss ideas around in a civilized forum like this.

Amen to that! :D (sorry, couldn't resist ;) )

[no_happy]

My parents are a mix of coe and catholic so to avoid arguments i was never christened. My parents have always known i was an athiest as, when i was a youngster i told them on a regular basis, (i mean when i was about 7).

Personally these days i border more on the agnostic side of things, either way it doesnt seem as it will be proved, so i might as well carry on with my life regardless. It may seem sad but i just dont think i have the blind faith to follow religon and i have too much of a hatred for every that follows organised religon to want to take part anyway

[thefobia]

I believe that there is a God, but I don't like organised religion. I think the pope and his homies have got quite a few things wrong. No matter how much someone tells you that something is right or true, you can't live by it, unless you really BELIEVE it. I prefer more of a private spiritualist approach to religion. My beliefs are no-one elses business except my own, and I try to live up to them privately. Going to church does not make you more in touch with God. Living your life peacefully does, whether you go to church or not.

I don't like bible bashers who pervert the teachings of Jesus. Infact I believe that you have to take the bible with a pinch of salt, as it is a Human invention, and it has been edited many times over the years. The bible is a book, with a few good messages, but not a direct link to a higher power.

I'm not into 'converting' people. For one thing, their beliefs are non of my damn business, and secondly, its up to people to themselves to develop their own spirituality.

Just my tuppence.

[DavyBoy721]

I don't like how Catholics go to talk to a priest.....I think you should be able to talk and pray to God yourself whenever you want and not have to deal with some other guy....like thefobia said, it's none of his damn business what you did wrong so you shouldn't have to tell him

[Nameless]

Originally posted by DavyBoy721
I don't like how Catholics go to talk to a priest.....I think you should be able to talk and pray to God yourself whenever you want and not have to deal with some other guy....like thefobia said, it's none of his damn business what you did wrong so you shouldn't have to tell him

I have a problem with the confession aspect of Catholic faith - give the church some money and say a few hail marys and you are completely absolved of ANY wrong doing? Bullsh*t. Trying not to make a sweeping generalisation but it does appear as though the Catholic church is rather corrupt, especially with the number of priests being convicted of paedophilia. The amount of compensation the church has paid out is staggering and it does beg the question of where does the money come from/go to?

I apologise in advance if that upsets any devout Catholics, but it is my opinion. For the record, my fathers entire family is Catholic and my nan didn't go to half of her (7) sons weddings because they married outside the Catholic church. Apparently her priest had some issues with that.

[DavyBoy721]

Originally posted by Nameless
I have a problem with the confession aspect of Catholic faith - give the church some money and say a few hail marys and you are completely absolved of ANY wrong doing? Bullsh*t. Trying not to make a sweeping generalisation but it does appear as though the Catholic church is rather corrupt, especially with the number of priests being convicted of paedophilia. The amount of compensation the church has paid out is staggering and it does beg the question of where does the money come from/go to?

I apologise in advance if that upsets any devout Catholics, but it is my opinion. For the record, my fathers entire family is Catholic and my nan didn't go to half of her (7) sons weddings because they married outside the Catholic church. Apparently her priest had some issues with that.

+1