Rocketship are one of the snappier pop outfits to emerge in recent years. Strummy guitars and lofty melodies call to mind some of the 1960's brighter pop moments, while blaring organs and twittering transitions between songs fall in nicely with newer groups like Stereolab. Head Rocketeer, Dustin, not only writes the band's material, but he also records it on a mid-1980's Tascam 8 track. We spoke with Dustin for the sole purpose of picking his brain for a few tips on the always fascinating home recording process. The conversation leaned a little to the techie-side of recording, but I'm sure you'll find it informative and possibly a tad inspirational, especially to all you would be self-producers out there.

Guitar Geek: When did you guys form?

Dustin: I guess about 1993.

Guitar Geek: Who does Rocketship consist of?

Dustin: Well, me and just the people I record with. We don't really play together, at least not live. I just get together with friends and we lay down basic tracks. Then some other people come over, so it's never all six of us together.

Guitar Geek: So no live shows for Rocketship then?

Dustin: Ohhh, we never do.

Guitar Geek: Did you ever?

Dustin: Yeah, but under another line-up.

Guitar Geek: What's led you to stick to nothing but studio work?

Dustin: A lot of it has to do with living in Sacramento. There is not very much support for local music. I was in another band before Rocketship and we would practice and play out all the time. It was frustrating. No one would show up to the shows after you'd put so much effort into it. I really wanted to focus on the creative side of things because all the playing out seemed to destroy that side of the music.

Guitar Geek: Plus if you compare how many people will hear your recordings to how many will actually see your shows, I think recording takes on a whole new priority.

Dustin: Exactly. I think it takes a lot of time and work to get really, really good live. For me, it takes away from recording and writing new songs. I mean playing out can be fun, but getting a group of people together, who all have separate lives, jobs, boyfriends and girlfriends can get really frustrating.

Guitar Geek: It's easy to get burned out.

Dustin: Yeah, and it's easy to lose sight of what you're even doing. The satisfaction of playing to ten drunk people is pretty low.

Guitar Geek: Is there much of a college music scene in Sacramento?

Dustin: That's the thing there are two colleges here so... you'd think there would be a bigger scene, but no.

Guitar Geek: So what else do you do in Sacramento? School, work, etc?

Dustin: I just do odd jobs. Right now I'm a baker, before that I worked at a record store.

Guitar Geek: How did you get hooked up with Slumberland Records?

Dustin: I mailed them a couple tapes. Actually, the first tape I never heard back on, so I sent them a second. I ended up getting a postcard from them saying they liked it, and that they wanted to do a single. Anyway, that evolved into doing a CD.

Guitar Geek: What type of stuff did you grow up listening to?

Dustin: A lot of Beatles, Bee Gees, Beach Boys, mmm, in high school I listened to a lot of Prince. (laughs)

Guitar Geek: That's a steady pop diet, I'd say. When did you start dabbling in recording?

Dustin: Well, I got a four track seven or eight years ago and learned the process on that.

Guitar Geek: Did you ever release anything you recorded on the four track?

Dustin: Nah, I just used it to make tapes for friends. When we started looking into the economics of going into a studio and recording stuff the way we thought we wanted, we decided it would better to buy our own equipment. I mean even a so-so recording in a studio would have cost us $800-900 bucks. So I ended up buying a Tascam 8-Track.

Guitar Geek: Is it one of those 388 1/4 inch deals?

Dustin: Yeah.

Guitar Geek: How do like it?

Dustin: Oh, it's great, but it does have some limitations. It only has 8 inputs, and when you have six mics on the drums, it doesn't leave too much room for the other instruments.

Guitar Geek: So do you assign those 6 drum tracks to go down to a two track stereo mix?

Dustin: Sometimes. In the beginning I'd mic each drum separately, but now I've gone to just doing the kick and the snare and then maybe a stereo overhead to include the toms and cymbals.

Guitar Geek: So is that what you've arrived at when it comes to recording drums?

Dustin: I don't know really, I do it differently depending on who's drumming. But I do think isolating the snare is the only for sure method. That way I always have the option of changing it later. If I do a kick and snare and just the stereo overhead I will bounce those later when I'm a little more certain of how I want it to sound. Eliminating more of the close micing stuff gives it more of a late sixties feel, which I like. I'm tired of this modern drum kit sound that I hear all the time.

Guitar Geek: A lot of drum sounds from that period in the late sixties were recorded with just a few room mics... very garagey sounding.

Dustin: They weren't so concerned with isolation. You watch The Beatles "Let It Be" and, if you noticed, Ringo's drum set's only got a few mics on it. Here's the most popular band in the world and the set up is so simple!

Guitar Geek: They were probably more limited with tracks than you are!

Dustin: But they did have better mics than me.

Guitar Geek: Yes. What types of mics do you use?

Dustin: A few Shure SM 57s, an AKG 112 for the kick, and two Shure SM 81 condenser mics for overheads and vocals. Those condensers annoy me though, they're too crisp and bright for me.

Guitar Geek: Yeah, they do pick up a lot of high end frequencies.

Dustin: Great for cymbals though, very clear.

Guitar Geek: How do you set then up in the room for drums?

Dustin: The most typical arrangement is sticking one about 3-4 feet above the high-hat pointing directly down at it. Then another above the ride at the same height as the first, but just right over the bell. So they are picking up both the high-hat and the ride, plus everything on the kit as well. About the only problem I've had in recording drums is a bit of phase cancellation.

Guitar Geek: What exactly is that?

Dustin: Really briefly, it would be as if the snare sound is creating these sound waves. They look like waves that move up and down through space and they hit the microphone at a certain point or a crest in that wave. That same sound will travel and will be picked up by another mike. If that mike doesn't catch the sound at the same time or at the same crest you'll get phase cancellation. The two will start to cancel each other out or attenuate each other at some point. The snare sound wave won't be as pure sounding.

Guitar Geek: So, what the two mics pick up will dilute each other?

Dustin: Yeah, really messed up, because they're not identical.

Guitar Geek: Does it actually sound like a slight phase, in and out of pitch or wavering in volume?

Dustin: No, just really thin sounding.

Guitar Geek: Where did you pick up most of your recording knowledge?

Dustin: Some of it from a few junior college classes. I really just learned the basics there. The rest from just years of doing it and finding out what sounds good.

Guitar Geek: Have you ever gone into a "real" studio?

Dustin: Nah, not at all.

Guitar Geek: Does it interest you?

Dustin: Well, I wouldn't mind the extra tracks, but I'm always put off by someone else's choices on how we should sound. The added expense is another big factor.

Guitar Geek: Where did you pick up your recording gear?

Dustin: Oh, just through the paper.

Guitar Geek: Do you buy mostly used?

Dustin: I try to, but sometimes you can't always wait for a bunch of 57s to come up in the paper, so some stuff I've bought new.

Guitar Geek: What type of outboard gear (compressors, reverb units, gates, etc.) do you use?

Dustin: I have an Alesis compressor, a 3630, and an Alesis Midi-Verb 2 reverb unit that I rarely use.

Guitar Geek: There's not a whole lot of reverb on your stuff anyway.

Dustin: I don't use any, I'd rather use amp reverb to keep away from using the digital.

Guitar Geek: Spring reverb is really warm.

Dustin: In a recording context, yeah.

Guitar Geek: Do you ever use noise gates for the drums?

Dustin: There is one on my compressor and I used it for awhile, but I had too many problems with it. It would pick up ghost notes or cut off real subtle playing on the snare. I don't like losing that information, it screws it all up when you lose any bit of the music. Why use a piece of gear that makes you worry?

Guitar Geek: I use those cheap DBX 363 ones with three knobs, They are a real no-brainer to use.

Dustin: Oh those half rack ones?

Guitar Geek: Yeah, they're really cool. I've used more complex ones and always got real frustrated with 'em.

Dustin: Do you ever have a problem with say a snare crack opening the tom gates?

Guitar Geek: All the time.

Dustin: How do you solve that?

Guitar Geek: Who knows? I watch the gates while recording and, as soon as anything hits, the whole thing detonates.

Dustin: Some of the better gates have frequency based gates, so you can isolate things better.

Guitar Geek: That would great but they're probably so high-endy, you'd have to go into a nice studio to make use of those.

Dustin: Exactly.

Guitar Geek: It's not worth it to me to pay that much. For the 800-1000 dollars you'd spend tracking four to five songs you could buy an 8-track 388.

Dustin: Buy it and learn to do it yourself, it's tremendously fun. Plus you're not limited to this by the hour thing. It's the worst system for any artist to be in, especially when you want to experiment. So many people have all these ideas and parts, but it ends up costing you $50.00 just to find out, so most never end up doing it. Sometimes you end up keeping crappy takes because of the time limit. But if it is in your home or practice area, you can try it as little or as much as you want. If things aren't happening on a given night you can quit and try it another night.

Guitar Geek: What approach do you have with the vocals?

Dustin: I usually set up a condenser mic and these pantyhose on a coat hanger I use for a wind screen. I put the screen about nine inches away from the mic and then situate the vocalist about three inches away from the screen. Then I run it through the compressor at a pretty good compression ratio, like 9 to 1, with 4-6 decibels of limiting, and a really slow release. Then, when it goes to tape, it sounds really smooth. I like really compressed vocals, so all the low quiet things and the loud parts come through clear. Lately, I've been relying on tape compression to achieve results. Pushing the tape with whatever signal I'm putting down almost to the point of distorting can be effective. Sounds can be so cool when you squash all those notes together where the tape can't handle any more.

Guitar Geek: What EQing do you do, if at all?

Dustin: I try to keep in mind the frequency that each instrument has. Like if it's the bass track, I know that no matter what I do in the 15K range, it's not going to make much difference because there is just not that much information there. Knowing what frequency range each instrument resides in helps to enhance and separate things. If I know the organ sounds good at 3K but the guitar does to, I'll slip one into a different range as to not repeat myself in that same range.

Guitar Geek: It's nice to give each instrument it's own home.

Dustin: Yes, but I'm still not totally happy with all the mixes I've come up with. I feel like I blew it on "A Certain Sadness..." with the bass. It's a little too tinny. I'm getting better though, the newer stuff I've been working on I'm a little more happy with.

Guitar Geek: Well at least you had the courage to commit it to tape and get it out. Now you'll have something to springboard off of next time.

Dustin: True, I bet there are a lot of closet musicians out there who just haven't taken that big step.

Guitar Geek: That's why we try to delve into home recording. To spark some interest that way. What type of guitar and amp setup do you record with?

Dustin: I play an old Telecaster Deluxe with the humbucker pickups.

Guitar Geek: The one with the Strat-style headstock?

Dustin: Yeah, but I alway break strings on it for some reason. So it's a little frustrating, but I'm too lazy to take it in and fix it. It's got a great sound. I also have this real crappy practice amp which I used to record with. It never sounded too hot especially when compared to the solid state Vox I'm playing through now. It's this huge stack type thing, but it sounds so good.

Guitar Geek: So did you use that for the "Certain Smile" record?

Dustin: No, that's the practice amp.

Guitar Geek: It still sounds great, very jangly.

Dustin: Thanks. For the "Certain Smile" stuff I spent way too much time recording the guitar, organ and the Fender Rhodes. I would take two mics and record onto two channels and then blend them together 'til it sounded good.

Guitar Geek: For each instrument?

Dustin: Yes, very time consuming and I don't think it sounded that much better. Now I just stick a 57 in front of the VOX amp, turn it up loud, and it sounds great!

Guitar Geek: All that set-up before probably took all of the spontaneity out of it.

Dustin: Yeah, I have these terrible perfectionist tendencies which aren't always good, because they take the fun out of being a musician. I have to remind myself that I'm a musician not an engineer.

Guitar Geek: Do you use any special pedals for your guitar?

Dustin: Up until this latest single for Bus Stop I just played clean, no pedals. Now I have a distortion box.

Guitar Geek: Do you ever go direct into the board to record?

Dustin: With the four track stuff, but not since I got the 8 track. Going direct never sounded as good as a mic-ed amp to me.

Guitar Geek: If you're Prince or Michael Jackson and you're looking for that funk-type sound, a direct sound works. Do you wish you had more tracks to work with?

Dustin: Sure, I'd love to get a sixteen track. Lately though, I've just been bouncing tracks on the 8-track. It's fun because it forces you to make some concrete decisions, you basically mix as you go. It eliminates the danger of recording stuff and trying to fix things at the final mixing.

Guitar Geek: Do you lose a lot in bouncing?

Dustin: Nah, I record so hot and then bounce it hot. I can't tell. I do try to make up for it, in that I boost the high end, since you run the risk of losing it on the second generation.

Guitar Geek: It never hurts to exaggerate on EQ on the bounce. What do you mix down to on the final mix?

Dustin: DAT. But I think I'm going to start using a 1/4 reel to reel from now on. I'm starting to have a real problem with digital. The digital experience is not as great as analog. For the music we are involved in there's so much vinyl floating around, so it seems logical to keep the whole thing analog, so as not to lose any of it.

Guitar Geek: 1/4 inch to a master 1630 is probably the most pure route.

Dustin: That's what I would think. Old records just sound better. The continuity of the analog wave form has an advantage over digital which is little chopped up chunks that fool your ear into thinking you're hearing a sound wave, but it's really just a simulation. I tend to burn out on music that's on CD, it's as though the true warmth isn't coming through because for thousands of years we've never heard digital sound. I don't have scientific proof to back me up, of course, but I am skeptical of the whole digital experience.

Guitar Geek: Do you ever have any fears about sending your mixes to the mastering stage and having them come back wacky?

Dustin: Not really, I just let it go.

Guitar Geek: Does it ever come back different than you had imagined?

Dustin: It's hard to say. I don't know whether it's the mastering or the vinyl I'm hearing it on.

Guitar Geek: Here's my big question for this issue: Why is everyone so afraid of good ol' guitar pop music?

Dustin: I don't know, are they?

Guitar Geek: Seems like it.

Dustin: Well there is a lot of bad pop out there.

Guitar Geek: Radio pop?

Dustin: That, as well as a lot of the indie scene. Seems like a lot of what is considered pop is just major labels pushing what they think will sell.

Guitar Geek: Speaking of labels, have you had any interest besides Slumberland and Bus Stop?

Dustin:Yeah, a lot of strange labels... uhhh, Mute was showing interest, some weird guy kept calling us! We may do a split with Slumberland and Elephant Records, who are out of Spain. Another label in Australia may do something.

Guitar Geek: Summershine?

Dustin: Nah, another one, I can't remember their name. Mike of Slumberland talked about doing something with an English Flexi label. So we'll see.

Guitar Geek: Well, good luck and thanks so much for the chat.

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